Sectas asesinas

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Everyone as you are. My name
is Juan Jesús Vallejos and journalist, desk,

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director of the Mystery Night program on
Caracol Radio, taking a greeting from

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Santo Domingo de la calzada at the
foot of the Camino de Santiago in Spain,

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Pilgrim Route. It' s funny
how some people have the ability to

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convince and hypnotize hundreds, even thousands
of people to follow him in his delusions,

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creating sects that tell us about the
end of the world and the apocalypse.

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Case sounded in history. For example, in the late seventies of the

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last century, Reverend Jin Jones brought
more than a thousand people to French Guiana

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who ended up with their lives being
poisoned or also senate worldwide. For example,

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the story of David Corres, the
leader of the Davidians who in Waco,

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Texas faced the very event you see, causing countless victims. How they

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are able to brainwash these people,
for if you want to know, do

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not miss the last night podcast of
mystery in snail radio sects, murderers,

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charlatans, fakes, messiahs, merchants, people who stay their own paranoia,

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others who say they will open the
doors of heaven to us. You'

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d think it' s possible,
maybe there are the chosen ones. I

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will not tell those who are Muslims, Christians or Buddhists that Jesus Christ,

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Buddha or Muhammad were chosen. I
can' t say that, but I

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do have to say that I'
m very afraid when they appear elected in

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the middle of the twentieth or twentieth
century, because what history tells us is

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that really many of these elect have
dragged hundreds or thousands of people into their

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madness. And they have dragged hundreds
or thousands of people into their madness,

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not only in their delirium of spirituality, but have dragged them even to death.

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And so it has happened with different
groups, with different sects, like,

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for example, Heavens Gates, like, for example, the Manson family,

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as it is for example, were
David Corege' s Daddians and many

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others. And it is a subject
that makes us reflect on the society in

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which we live, because today when
they were looking at me notes and different

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data of all this and I saw
history of some sects, for example Heavens

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Gate, which became famous in the
year ninety- seven because several of its

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members took their lives to pass to
the next level where the aliens were.

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And I, while I was reading
this, the history of this group was

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saying good to see We live right
now in a world in which a good

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percentage of the population of the planet
has gotten into this terraplanism, the earth

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is flat and the images there are
of the earth and so on. It

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' s a big conspiracy where the
thousands of NASA employees, plus the non

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- American, Russian or Japanese satellites, and I don' t know how

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many countries they all lie to us
and say and think and reflect here and

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say, my mother, if one
of these that begins with terraplanism then gives

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it for being messiahs. This isn' t gonna end well. But it

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is also, now, with the
emergence of this new social network, which

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is making anger called Tiktok. I
don' t think I put it,

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because the amount of stupidity I hear
just rip it off, because many of

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these merchants and prophets and false messiahs
use one thing that bothers me a lot,

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which is mystery issues. They use
extraterrestrials or use parapsychology, or they

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use certain conspiracies and they use certain
things to start selling us a great obvious

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truth that only they know and this
has a lot more strength than we imagine,

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because these people, with that kind
of message, what they do is

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pull many people out of monotony and
lead them to understand in quotation marks.

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I say this the real reality.
And there are a lot of characters now

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that have gone viral on Tiktok,
not on other social networks. I repeat

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about Tiktok, saying, for example, that they have been members of secret

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services and that they really know that
the land is flat because the Illuminatis have

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hired them to go by helicopter or
were spies of the Illuminatis in different countries,

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which is a sovereign stupidity. As
I am saying, this is believed

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not by thousands, nor by hundreds
of thousands, nor by me. Don

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' t ask me why, but
it' s true. What I believe

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from my nil opinion, here we
have a psychologist who is going to give

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us his now is because that kind
of message gets us out of monotony and

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makes us participate in a reality to
which only a few chosen come and be

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different, be special and be there
I think it is something that attracts the

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human being. There is no other
way to understand this paranoia that we can

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all be victims of, absolutely all
of us. Because, for example,

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this afternoon, as I was going
over notes here at home, I remembered,

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I don' t know if many
of you know him or not,

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of a very nefarious character in history
who was called Charles Manso, creator of

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a sect called The Family, a
very small sect that became tremendously famous from

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the 9th of August of a thousand
nine hundred and sixty- nine, day

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when disciples of this sect that created
Charle Manson, I repeat, the family

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murdered Sharon Tate, a very famous
Hollywood actress and was also pregnant. She

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was stabbed several times. They also
murdered that afternoon, in a mansion in

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Hollywood, four other people, writing
on the walls of that mansion the words

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pinkpork pink pigs, accusing an elite
of people of being running the world and

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in Chart Manson' s delusion,
besides that he was a person who had

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a history of kizophrenia and paranoid behavior
to think that the Apocalypse was near as

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it was going to start an ethnic
war between blacks and whites in the United

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States, which would be the beginning
of the end of the days, for

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this gentleman convinced many people, many
of them women, and so far I

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say well, for he was a
Chalao and a madman who basically had some

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appeal to a group of people who
were at the time involved in the hippie

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movement and that I don' t
know what they smoked themselves or that they

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took every day in a rush.
But it is that Charle Manson, until

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he died a few years ago,
was the prisoner of the planet of the

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world, who received more letters on
his Cell, letters of admiration. You

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understand the society in which we live. I assure you that I do not

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prefer to keep talking about aliens and
other things, because, as soon as

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I get social and human, I
recognize that one makes me a little crazy

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And, second, I don'
t know if what I feel is sadness

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or desire to run away from this
planet. My name is Juan Jesús Vallejo.

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What you want to follow me on
social networks, on my twitter is

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Arroba Juange Vallejo, Juan j Vallejo, on Instagram, on Facebook Juan Jesús

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Vallejo. And this is another mystery
night show. And here what we do

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is mystery journalism. We oppose the
facts on the table and you decide what

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is behind and what is not.
And ask what do you think of this

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introduction I' ve made to you. Charles Manson, who instigated other people

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to be murderers because the apocalypse came. He was the prisoner in the world

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who received the most letters on his
cell. You know I' m making

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an author' s trip the second
half of September this year, two thousand

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twenty- four. Once again we
will travel to Egypt, to enjoy the

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magic of the mystery of the pyramids
and to sail in unforgettable days for the

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fabulous Nile. You have all the
information on that trip to Egypt, I

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repeat, second fortnight of the month
of September of the year two thousand twenty

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- four. You have all the
information on the website. Three trips Juan

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Jesús Vallejo com I repeat, Three
trips Juan Jesús Vallejo com And we start

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now without further delay. Alejandro Bernal, partner friend, how are you?

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All right, John I have greeted
for you, also for our exceptional guests

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of this program, Evinolaya and Camilo
Manjarres and, of course, for all

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listeners here, as always, sharing
with the great family of mystery, quite

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interesting themes and on this occasion,
John g a topic that we had been

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asked enough by social networks, to
talk about sects, and I think it

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is important to address it not only
with a professional like Evinci, also from

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history and when you spoke about Charles
Manson, Juan Ge and that strange statistic

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of being one of the convicts who
received the most letters in the world.

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I think that speaks quite a bit
of a society like the one we have,

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not just the American one, but
in the West. I would venture

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to say that worldwide, so juange
that a few months ago I am talking

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about less than six months ago,
in Africa there was another of these destructive

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mushrooms, which provoked a massive suicide
of more than 300 people. Again,

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one of these leaders with apocalyptic messages, that is, what we are going

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to do is a historical review,
but of facts that are current. And

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I would venture to say that a
messianic dynamic, unfortunately, which continues to

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present itself to this day and which
will very certainly continue to be presented,

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unfortunately, in the future. And
if you like my work, I invite

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you to subscribe to my YouTube channel. Mandragora mysteries Mandragora mysteries on YouTube.

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I think this is something that has
happened throughout history and now I think it

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just has a little bit different nuances
on social networks or because if you rush

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me, the level of paranoia is
even higher, because I understand that in

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the middle ages, where there was
a tremendous incultura and so on, there

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is a chalao, a messiah or
something and people follow him and end up

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taking his life. But they start
in the 21st century where we say that

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it is easy to access information and
to have a minimum of culture and so

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that this continues to happen as if
nothing happened. And besides, the more

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fantastic the madness, the better,
the more adept it has. This is

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one thing that I then ask Edwing
Olaya because I don' t understand it,

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Camilo Manjarrés, friend that there is
how one is, like you very

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well, friend, Camilo, what
do you think of this that we are

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saying. Alejandro and I will see
this madness. But you, you think

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you were younger. I' m
very bald and it' s called hair

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a long time ago, but you, you' re young. Among the

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young people follow many people of Tiktok
and they also continue to believe that the

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flat earth and that there is a
lord who has a quantum machine that heals

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your soul, because of this it
is sold in Tiktok. It' s

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just that I' m grieving you, Juange, but it' s very

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curious. Not because, from the
historical part and from the part of the

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social sciences, I am Professor Te, I can say that these accounts,

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these events that have been seen can
be explained easily or well, in quotation

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marks, easily with very curious terms, such as symbolic violence. John is

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that symbolic violence is a term that
a French sciozologist with an averted surname mentions

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that it is that violence that does
not exert a physical force, but is

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simply the imposition of power in an
authoritarian way. We find that yes,

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obviously, in these cases that we
are going to report, in some cases

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if there was physical violence, what
most have in common is that they were

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people who were manipulated psychologically through that
symbolic violence, through those acts that were

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perhaps committed in a manner of authoritarian
imposition and which, unfortunately, were victims

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of these events. Well, that' s very good thinking. I think

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one thing called brainwashing techniques is fundamental. He' s not going to talk

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about this Eddin Olaya. And the
truth is that all this that has come

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up over the last few months,
especially of there has been a boom in

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tiktok or a series of characters that
I feel sorry for because they are also

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Spanish and that is what I find
tremendously sad and pathetic. Well, they

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' re just some charlatans, but
what they do is they then give you

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quantum therapy that I don' t
know you give her quantum therapy. I

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don' t think that exists.
For starters, you get quantum therapy to

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get out of the matrix. I
get out of the matrix by taking two

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beers and I get a lot cheaper
and if it' s three beers plus

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some of the matrix. But either
way, it' s crazy that I

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can' t understand it, but
maybe he does, because he' s

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a psychology genius. It' s
Mrs Edwin Olayag. And I think before

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we start, we' ve left
you in the air, like, fourteen

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questions, or which one to start
with, son and friends, how are

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you? Here. Thank you so
much for the invitation. A greeting to

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You, to Camilo, to Alejandro
and, of course, to all those

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who are listening to us deferred.
As always, it is a pleasure to

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share with you, particularly in this
Saturday Sunday night transition. We hope,

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I think it is an expectation of
this team that accompanies you all not to

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leave them too questioned or rather leave
them very questioned, because that is the

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point of what you mentioned at the
time. Juange. We are in a

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time of excess information. But,
as great philosophers of the 20th and 21st

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century already say, the problem is
not information. The problem is the absence

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of critical thinking. And here I
think this is a super- key point

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for what we' re going to
deal with tonight, which are these groups.

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I am, I' m going
to subtract a little bit and in

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a moment, if you' ll
allow me, explain why. But I

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am going to subtract myself from the
use of the word sect, because really

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sect speaks to us of a religious
ideology, mainly in fact, it is

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of etymology, that is, the
word sect has that connotation and that makes

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us think and leads us to a
stereotype, and that is that all sects

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are religious in nature and, on
the other hand, it blurs the very

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complex problem behind it. But,
for a change, I' m going

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everywhere. Then we either go to
Jesus with the first things. So I

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think the problem at this point is
the excess of information. Besides that a

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lot of you have said it,
that junk information, it' s frivolous

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information, it' s superficial information, that information that it has at all

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invites reflection and we' re falling
into a tenacious obscurantism Prof Camilo in which

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we don' t even feel like
thinking. On that level of superficiality,

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then it' s like a black
hole that we' re all falling into.

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I acknowledge myself guilty of not spending
so many hours. Yes, because

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in some way I control the stimulus, but I do see many minutes watching

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silly rials of things that are not
going to give me anything in life and

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that, in theory, I am
getting more into the matrix. And I

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think that' s also leading us
to a phenomenon for me as a psychologist,

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as a criminologist and even from my
spiritual beliefs a super critical topic that

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is the deification of evil. I
mean, a long time ago evil was

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the antithesis of good, that is, that typical fight. We saw it

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for a long time in different scenarios, comics, to say one as atypical.

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But today even bad people are good, that is, that moral ethical

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structure. If you want some to
associate with religion. And it' s

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not like that. Yeah, that
dividing line isn' t that clear anymore.

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And that then makes us fall into
issues like that in some it can

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be a paraphilia. It' s
recognized. But that attraction to those sordid

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dark characters you look at are characters
of zero admiration and in this case you

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mentioned, like Charles Manson, but
he' s not the only one.

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John Wayne Gase sent her women'
s garments, bought her paintings. Jeffrey

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Damer was also getting letters. And
so what to say to Richard Ramirez,

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the night Stocker, also a serious
killer who even married in prison, that

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is, these characters. Let'
s say a little bit about that natural

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attraction of the human being, that
curiosity towards evil attracts attention. But at

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this level of frivolity, I think
we are falling, I repeat, into

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a black hole from which, physicists
say, it is impossible to get out,

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because not even the light comes out. It' s not that that

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' s the point. I believe
everything in the key to one thing,

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the absence of critical thinking. And
besides, I think, even if you

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' re getting a little bit out
of the script for a change, that

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social media is making us more assholes. I mean, I already and I

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' m Twitter, or I used
to be Twitter, or I already tweet

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already. I don' t think
of anything on Twitter except some bullshit,

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because it' s all a fight
and a problem. And then it'

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s funny because you put it on
Twitter and now you' re the ones

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who think that politicians are gods,
that' s one from right to left

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from center. They' re gods, they' re not human, they

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' re not wrong, I mean, it' s an absence of brutal

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critical thinking. I' m from
the left, if I' m progressive,

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and then I have a leader who' s an ammon, I don

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' t care because I' m
from the left, if I' m

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progressive, I' m from the
right, if I' m a person

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who likes order, and I don' t know how much I have a

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leader who' s a cafra who
can' t even imagine you, it

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doesn' t matter because I'
m from the right, if I'

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m from the right to the right. I believe that democracy makes people who

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change their votes and I think they
are smart. If this guy isn'

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t a good manager change, I
don' t care what I do,

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be progressive, right, center,
top, bottom, that is, if

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this guy is useless, because I
take the vote from him okay and there

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' s already chao. But now
it' s an absence of critical thinking,

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what you' ve said absurd,
but absurd, that is, and

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I think another important factor, because
I totally agree with you and nevin for

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me the hyperi information, that is, people stuff themselves with such a lot

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of data, of videos, of
postures, of themes that basically, in

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the middle of all that many times
and I say because it' s happened

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to me on some occasions it'
s hard to discern that there' s

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in the middle of all that data, of videos, of postures, it

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' s very complicated. I mean, imagine a person who has access to

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a device of those and any social
network will listen to any kind of ideas,

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any kind of postulates and something also
very interesting that I think would be

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worth analyzing in this, since we
have Edwin and of course Camilo' s

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position. From the point of view
of history, I think it' s

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the gregarious animals, we' re
group animals. We like to feel content,

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we like to feel that we are
part of and many times what social

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networks do is to create such groups, groups like the terraplanists, groups like

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those who hate the terraplanists or the
right left. So I think that,

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apart from that hyperro of information Juan, that tendency aglutivernus to feel part of

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us, to be part of a
tribe or to be a group or to

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be part of a group that thinks
about such a thing. And I think

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many times that' s what but
on social media and that' s what

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I' ve heard. Psychologist,
I' d like Edwing' s opinion

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and also Camilo, if you want
to talk that the problem with social media

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is that you get into a group
and already think that everyone has to think

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just like that group. And if
you' re not far from reality and

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the right path, then the stance
gets more and more radical by milk,

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because I' ve been dedicating to
mystery journalism for almost thirty years and when

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I see the terraplanist movement, I
don' t hate them. I mean,

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there' s a time when,
I mean, honestly gives me a

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little bit. It' s unfortunate, I mean, but it' s

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serious that a guy comes out in
Tiktok saying that the earth is flat that

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beyond the ice wall of ros of
Antarctica, what we find is forgiveness that

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I laugh worth it. We find
a continent, an island where the Nazis

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who escaped in World War II live, another is Atlantis, Le Muria and

278
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then the other. You don'
t even remember me as a guru Sorry,

279
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:17.319
the asgar You remember we wouldn'
t die of laughter. The other

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day, speaking of this, okay, I gave you a video and I

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say you' re going to die
of the new, the new Swabia that,

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according to those conspiracy theories, would
be the so that I would have

283
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created the Nazis beyond Antarctica to build
a fourth Rike. And the worst thing

284
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is that he sustains it and says
it quietly. Yes, and that the

285
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moon I see that camilo is there, that it speaks camilo if it is

286
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that raises his hand here really vina
Forgive me is pulling out the flags so

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that the people hold the hand of
king that we laugh, Alexander and I

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00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.839
who sent him the video, and
that the plasma moon and it is an

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artificial plan, and that the stars
are energetic points and the Moon reflects the

290
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continents that are on earth. Yeah, it' s a reflection of the

291
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moon' s stains. In the
spots of the Moon are the continents beyond

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the Ice Wall. I mean,
this for a science novel. Fiction is

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00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.039
great, I mean, it'
s even brilliant. No. But I

294
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mean, it' s like from
and then clear those characters that tell you

295
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:18.240
in the story and then tell you
that they have a quantum machine in which

296
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you can transcend in the matrix to, because that' s when we'

297
00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:25.880
re not here and that' s
what you' re going to go to

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00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:27.680
another planet. I mean, I
don' t have a word for Camila

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00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:33.000
Mancarres. Yes, John and indeed, as Alejo commented, unfortunately, not

300
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:37.039
us, as such or young or
good, or the population in general is

301
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:42.839
lacking that critical thought and we move
on to a collective thought. Or John

302
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and I know that soon, at
that time the listeners who were knowing what

303
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.160
collective thinking is. And there is
a French sociologist of Urken' s Surname,

304
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:57.599
who mentions that collective thinking Juange Alejo
and Edvin are those beliefs values and

305
00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:03.599
norms of a particular society and that
it is influenced by the behavior of these

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00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:11.039
same beliefs. That is, as
a society is influenced by perhaps some belief,

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some norm. And since we are
talking about social networks, because this

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00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:21.400
same community, these members who are
part of that community, believe everything they

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are seeing on these social networks,
lack that critical thinking and automatically believe that

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that is the reality. And they
are lacking in this, so we make

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00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.480
a collective thought, as Durquen mentions
it, that is, it is rather

312
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:41.240
regrettable not to lack critical thinking and
to trap ourselves in that collective thought.

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00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.359
If a collective thought that can be
led by a leader who is an authentic

314
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:51.240
nut, but who has a good
loquacity, and then that makes people disembedded

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00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:55.359
with their stories. A minute is
missing, but the opinion of the psychologist

316
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:59.240
of Eduolaya what you think stands out
has said the career of collective thought and

317
00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:03.279
in the next block already if we
start with the sect that did these insanities

318
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.119
specifically, yes promised or promised I
do not want. I want to pick

319
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:15.359
up what Alejandro says about that group
feeling, but it' s really one.

320
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:21.000
It' s a false group feeling. Yeah, actually, the most

321
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:25.599
paradoxical thing is that I can join
x group. Yes, that we clarify

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00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:30.000
now when we talk about these groups
by one ideology and so on. However,

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I am not that in psychology,
as we are using terms is called

324
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disindividuation, that is, the individual
ceases to be one to become the group.

325
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.680
There is no more individuality. So, the paradox here is that by

326
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:55.880
joining a group, either a sect
or another pseudo- scientific group like the

327
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.119
one you' re mentioning. I
see you very energetic on the subject of

328
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:08.319
tera planismo guaje, but could it
also be the moringa in Pandemia or the

329
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:14.200
Bible? The Bible, or the
hair of the Bible, and so on,

330
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:18.720
before and after. Paradoxically, the
individual ceases to be the individual.

331
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:22.720
And that brings us to the same
point I raised at the beginning. There

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00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.400
is no recognized one, there are
identity problems, and in the face of

333
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:36.720
this lack of identity, we may
find one of the reasons why we do

334
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.319
not sit down and reflect on what
we hear, what we read. And

335
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:44.759
we don' t even care anymore, because in criticizing him, then the

336
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:47.680
others reject me. And there'
s the phenomenon of identity. And to

337
00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:51.480
understand who I am versus, who
the others are and why I associate myself

338
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:56.880
with that reflection of sdwin Hello yaut
And after this first block of introduction to

339
00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:00.519
this collective madness, that is already
right with terraplanism. I' m not,

340
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.799
but terraplanism, at first it was
funny. The truth is good and

341
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:08.640
he gave me a very good documentary
is on Netflix which is called s convincing.

342
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:11.519
Yes, it' s true,
I mean, at first I was

343
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.480
very funny and I said well,
that' s it. Well, there

344
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:21.039
are characters that have started to become
known with this and they' re like

345
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:25.240
a bunch of people there that have
more and more thousands of followers. And

346
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:29.759
but when I started reading about terraplanism
because as a sociological phenomenon, it seemed

347
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:36.039
to me a wonderful thing, it
turns out that those who created all this

348
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:38.359
in the United States started selling trip
that took you to Antarctica so that you

349
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.359
had the ros ice mule and they
charged you twenty thousand dollars, that is,

350
00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:45.720
they were crazy, but maybe not
so much. And now these characters

351
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:49.400
have emerged, since they are version
two zero you don' t need to

352
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:52.440
go to me to show you Rosa' s mule in the Antarctic that costs

353
00:27:52.440 --> 00:28:00.759
the trip fifteen thousand dollars. I
do a quantum healing session so that you

354
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:04.200
can get out of the matrix and
actually see that the earth is flat and

355
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:11.160
that we are dominated by the Illuminatic
that subtracts the world every xglo that has

356
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:15.799
also forgotten the rc that that is
very good also the rectification that turns out

357
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.079
that our history now began at the
end of the 19th century. Before this

358
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:23.400
lie, including archaeological evidence are there
laid by the illuminatis. So, as

359
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:30.839
the Holy God means, the world
has lost its ball, we started getting

360
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:37.640
into this kind of grouping and with
this kind of social paranoia. Alejandro Bernal

361
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:42.759
is a group. A man named
Reverend Jim Jones, who in Guyana caused

362
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:51.279
many people to die, created a
sect called the People' s Temple.

363
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:57.400
On what basis was the temple of
the people, who is this character Jin

364
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:03.759
Jones, who made this story n
nea fasta in humanity. Ange, a

365
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:10.440
figure of nine hundred and thirteen people
died after a collective suicide. Adept even

366
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:15.759
sect of the temple of the disciples, it was called completely the temple of

367
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:19.200
the people of Christ' s disciples. He had such a great name.

368
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:22.759
By the way, since we'
re talking about this, Juange, which

369
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:29.559
was a religious movement that emerged in
the United States in a thousand nine hundred

370
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.119
and fifty- five, that is, from the middle of the last century

371
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.759
and the great leader and protagonist of
this story is, as you rightly said,

372
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:42.839
James Warren Jones, better known as
Jim Jones for the Parisians laugh around

373
00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:48.200
and Jim Jones was a character that
really seems to me to have a rather

374
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:52.599
interesting story to analyze. Within the
context and topic that we are analyzing in

375
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.440
this program, which are these kind
of sectarian party groups, it turns out

376
00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.440
juanje that Jim Jones was a man
who was born into a middle- class

377
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:04.039
family in nineteen hundred and thirty-
one in Indiana and had two particularities.

378
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:08.559
On the one hand, his father
was a member of the Kukux Clan,

379
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:14.880
an active member of almost nothing,
and his mother was a woman who by

380
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:17.519
the time, that is, Jim
Jones was born in a thousand thirty-

381
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:22.799
one almost a century ago, was
a woman who did not correspond to the

382
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:26.039
aesthetic canon or behavior of the woman
of that time of the twentieth century.

383
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.400
She was a woman who, according
to Jim Jones' biographers, wore pants,

384
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:37.640
smoked a lot, said it was
the reincarnation of a man who had

385
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.680
lived in the civil war, that
is, in this sancocho mental grew up

386
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:45.799
Jim Jones, that is, father
of the Cucus clan mom who smoked this

387
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:51.079
one as being the reincarnation of an
exact man, who was an incarnation of

388
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:53.000
war, that is to say already. There we go well then in the

389
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:56.400
middle of this cocktail, this is
a mental car and this particular family in

390
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:03.000
which Jim Jones grew up, for
a man who always noticed, especially by

391
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:08.000
the influence of his mother, that
had to do a spiritual search. So

392
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:12.599
it is said that at almost ten
years old, Jim Jones began to investigate

393
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:18.599
the Bible, about Protestantism, about
this current in the United States. So

394
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:23.839
almost since he was twelve years old
he began to be like protomitins, so

395
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:29.359
to speak, to gather children of
his age and to tell him these studies

396
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.960
that he had done of course,
without much knowledge at the time, a

397
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.279
man who, after finishing his university
career, Juan Ge knows who would be

398
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:41.319
his wife, a woman who was
a nurse and joins the Methodist church.

399
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:48.599
And this detail is important within the
life of Jim Jones, because in this

400
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:52.319
Methodist church, of which he was
a part, he was formed as a

401
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.079
pastor, that is, he was
instructed to have in this case the basic

402
00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:01.640
knowledge, for, to carry out
this work and at this point Juange,

403
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:07.000
Jim Jones forms, together with his
wife, his sentimental companion, something that

404
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:12.279
was known as the rainbow family Iris. This family member Coiris was the pioneer

405
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:19.480
group to this village temple. It
turns out that this Rainbow family, basically

406
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:23.079
Juan g Edwin, Camilo and listeners, was a group where Jim Jones tried

407
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:30.119
to adopt children of various races,
to bring them together, to have them

408
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:36.319
as a group, to give them
a religious formation, to give them a

409
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:38.279
better chance of life, at least
so Jim Jones saw at that time.

410
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:44.160
It turns out that, to the
extent that Jim Jones and his wife were

411
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:49.599
recruiting children and other people, the
group grew and reformed and later became what

412
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:53.559
became known as the village temple and
in the midst of this began to emerge

413
00:32:53.559 --> 00:33:00.000
a series of particular events. Jim
Jones, according to his close wounds,

414
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:06.119
claimed to be the reincarnation of Lenin, Jesus Christ and Buddha. It must

415
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:10.799
be remembered that Lenin forgives, that
imagine that Christo and Buddha I understand.

416
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.799
But Lening was crazy, because Jenny
Jones hated religion. He was a communist,

417
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:21.240
but Jim Jones was at the bottom
of the left. He was very

418
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:23.279
communist, despite having all this training, that sar car mental. And one

419
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:27.599
must also consider something Juan Gel on
the side of his maternal influence, his

420
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.279
mother believed it was the reincarnation of
a civil war soldier, as it was

421
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:36.960
someone who had this kind of belief. Then, Jim Jones began to grow

422
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:43.079
his group began to earn a good
amount of money, a mini fortune in

423
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:47.480
fact, he came to comment that
he got to rub shoulders with such important

424
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:52.359
personalities from the United States as Rosallin
Carter, the wife of former President Jimmy

425
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.160
Carter, or a first lady from
the United States. If this guy didn

426
00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:00.640
' t rub shoulders with anyone.
And a number of very interesting things that

427
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:06.000
made this people' s tempo stand
out in the United States remember was founded

428
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:09.960
on one thousand nine hundred and fifty- five and John who, unlike other

429
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:15.880
religious groups in the United States,
Jim Jones did receive people of color and

430
00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:21.840
this made him stand out from other
religious leaders of the time. For Jim

431
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:24.519
Jones, or at least what he
postulated within the people' s tempo group

432
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:29.920
is that there should be no racial
differences and, of course, people of

433
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:36.599
color also joined this movement. In
fact, it is said that there was

434
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.960
a relatively close relationship between Jim Jones
and the black panthers. To contextualize our

435
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:47.880
listeners, the Black Panthers, a
militant ideological movement that emerged in the United

436
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:54.000
States in the middle of the last
century to claim the rights of Black people.

437
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:58.039
It' s just that of course
I want to put on a little

438
00:34:58.039 --> 00:34:59.920
bit of context for forgiveness. It
is necessary to define the people who at

439
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:05.840
that time, in the United States
was still segregation exactly the black could not

440
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:08.199
go to schools of the white or
whether to get on a bus use.

441
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:15.280
Indeed, either he had specific places
on a bus and other black or white

442
00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:20.199
sites. There was even a bathroom
for the blacks, bathrooms for the white.

443
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:24.800
Then, of course, in that
sense, the message of a pastor

444
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:30.960
like Jim Jones, if he was
a breaker, if it was something new,

445
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:36.719
exactly Juan Gel being able to welcome
these people openly and especially a guy

446
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:40.280
who rubbed shoulders with personalities as important
as a first lady. It turns out

447
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:46.360
that Jim Jones, according to his
biographers, received a message repeatedly in the

448
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:52.320
mid- 1970s, from a more
than latent possibility of a nuclear holocaust.

449
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:57.599
And this is also important to contextualize. Juanje in the 1970s, full cold

450
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:02.079
war, two political, economic and
military blocs, the United States, the

451
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:07.719
Soviet Union, a struggle for military
power, a space race in Ciernes and,

452
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:12.159
above all, a latent threat that
I believe that the people we have

453
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:15.239
more than forty juan that we must
remember here, we lived in the heat

454
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:20.760
of someone pressing a red button,
whether Soviet or American, and I think

455
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:24.400
this was a shadow in which we
live many of those who have a certain

456
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:30.960
age purpose very well represented by Gabo
in the Cataclysm of Damocles. So,

457
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:37.079
when Jim Jones got this message,
he realized that he had to take his

458
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:38.760
group to Brazil, that is,
it was like a decision he made.

459
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:44.079
I have to go to Brazil,
take my group, my followers, this

460
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:49.559
part of the world here, to
South America. But before he finally eradicated

461
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:52.119
himself in Brazil, he decided to
make a journey to Guyana. He realized

462
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:55.960
that it was a place as an
intermediate transition before reaching his final destination,

463
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:01.039
the place he wanted to give to
his group, to his sect. It

464
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:07.320
turns out a juanje Ken Guyana comments
that this man initially had a series of

465
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.880
problems, so to speak, with
local authorities, but like Jim Jones,

466
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:15.840
he had very good influences and had
money. Basically, what he did was

467
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:20.400
bribe the local authorities to hear you
stay quiet, leave me alone, I

468
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:22.519
do my things here. Don'
t mess with me and I' m

469
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:24.320
not messing with you. And other
than that, I gave them money.

470
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:30.400
And in the midst of this context, Jim Jones had also won a series

471
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:35.679
of enemies from people who did not
see this movement with good eyes, especially

472
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:39.800
because they had either friends or relatives
who had left their lives in the United

473
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:45.519
States to go to such an exotic
destination as Guyana. And this is where

474
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:49.800
one of the great counterdictors appears from
the realm of Jim Jones' policy.

475
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:58.119
Leo Ja Ryan, a man who
was an American congressman and said ok Yo,

476
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:00.280
the truth is this story they'
re going to go to Brazil.

477
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:05.920
I have to go check it out. It turns out Leo Ryan traveled to

478
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:09.719
Georgetown, there to Guyana Juange,
in the company of journalists. Moreover,

479
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:15.400
when he arrived in the area,
he met with some people who are part

480
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:22.119
of Jim Jones' group, who
really seemed to be sorry to be part

481
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:28.199
of the activities that were carried out
there according to Leo Ryan and some of

482
00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:32.480
the people who were with him,
These people said they felt tired of that

483
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:37.320
continuous brainwashing, that they had within
the group, that they had seen attitudes

484
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:42.519
and activities within themselves, that they
had not liked, activities within which they

485
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:46.480
were dealing drugs, weapons, that
is, that they did not feel comfortable.

486
00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:52.559
And it turns out that in this
visit to Juange that Leo Ryan made

487
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:58.199
on 14 November a thousand nine hundred
and seventy- eight, when Jim Jones

488
00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:02.280
found out about it and realized that
Leo Ryan not only arrived with these journalists,

489
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:07.039
but took away fourteen of his members. Jim Jones took it very personally.

490
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:14.639
It felt like an affront. He
decided to order some of his followers

491
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:20.039
to follow Leo Ryan and his entourage
to the airport there in Guyana, the

492
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:28.559
airport of Puerto Kautuma and Juangel.
Basically, his followers shot this U S

493
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:32.920
congressman, Leo Ryan when they went, Juange shot him, his companions,

494
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.559
and the fourteen deserters, because that' s how he measured them. Jim

495
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:43.079
Jones, deserters from his sect,
finished them off. And then, at

496
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:45.360
that moment, for me it is
the great turning point of this story.

497
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:51.719
Jim Jones felt somewhat cornered to see
his followers had finished a congressman from the

498
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:55.000
United States. Whether it' s
Eve or not, I knew this wasn

499
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.320
' t going to come out for
free. So this guy says the following

500
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:02.960
and Brocamillas gathers his group and says
we' ve got everything we wanted in

501
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:07.760
this world, we' ve had
a good life and we' ve been

502
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:14.400
loved. Let' s get this
over with. Let us end this agony

503
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:20.440
and after saying that speech in front
of this whole group, some women who

504
00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:25.880
were, so to speak, nurses
who were part of this group Juange distributed

505
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:31.079
Cyanuro mixed with grape juice and handed
it to the people who are at that

506
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:38.039
time in Guyana and, according to
the initial balance, were nine hundred victims.

507
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:45.800
But the most recent Juang data reaches
nine hundred and thirteen people who perished

508
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:50.079
in this massive suicide in Guyana.
With this sect, the temple of the

509
00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:53.079
town of Jim Jones, in the
year nineteen hundred and seventy- eight,

510
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:59.400
has counted it in a masterful manner. And how a team drags a lot

511
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:04.000
of people into their paranoia suddenly looks
cornered and then, then, begins to

512
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.920
talk about the Apocalypse and such and
all the story that you have to leave

513
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:15.039
and convinces more than nine hundred people
is duinoraya what you can say as a

514
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:17.599
psychologist of a personality. I mean, it' s terrifying. No,

515
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:23.480
I' m not talking about Jean' s personality yet. I want,

516
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:29.159
if I may, to make two
clarifications regarding what I have mentioned, because

517
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:32.800
I had access to or knowledge of
the investigation files, because this obviously had

518
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:38.800
a federal investigation and those files are
public, public consultation. First of all,

519
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:44.599
juanje in front of what you say
about John' s paranoia doesn'

520
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:50.039
t apply. I mean, Jim
Jones really left America because it was the

521
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:59.440
easiest way to evade taxes and control
people. Yes, I mean, the

522
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:04.559
issue of nuclear risk and so forth
was the idea that he sold out on

523
00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:09.320
some, but he really didn'
t believe any of that, that is,

524
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:15.440
he also took on a role as
a role. Yes, and that

525
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:20.719
' s what all the leaders of
this group do, of these coercive persuasion

526
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:24.400
groups, which they do. That
is the most professional term, because it

527
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:30.320
is also being mentioned that the underlying
problem. Yeah, so Jones really does

528
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:37.559
find out where to avoid the main
focus of state surveillance, state supervision.

529
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:43.800
Besides that he had already had,
as Alejandro said, a previous group and

530
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.679
in that group there had already been
intervention by research agencies, because they said

531
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:55.519
what is happening in that group.
The other thing is that, more than

532
00:42:55.639 --> 00:43:01.199
this guy, why the visit of
this congressman goes to Brazil has to do

533
00:43:01.239 --> 00:43:09.400
with that already several families who were
in this center wanted to go because,

534
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:15.320
because basically what they sold them in
the brochure did not appear anywhere, that

535
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:21.239
is, they bought on plans and
none of that came out of the camps.

536
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:29.039
Quiet life is more field. You
remember the Simpson episode that' s

537
00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:31.559
like a cult. The leader is
good, the exact leader, I don

538
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:36.159
' t remember. The song is
inspired by this in Jones' case,

539
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:40.480
because they were offered, rather,
a perfect life. In addition, however,

540
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:46.000
events began to occur, which is
very repeated, such as incidents of

541
00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:52.119
abuse, abuse, abuse, use
of less, abuse of minors and also

542
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:55.079
of women. Yeah,' cause
Jones didn' t drive everything alone and

543
00:43:55.199 --> 00:44:00.719
watch that this data is critical.
He had his close group all good leader

544
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:04.519
of this coercive persuasion group. He' s gonna have a trust group,

545
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:09.280
just like you have away, for
example, then what happens. These individuals

546
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:15.199
were abusing their role and several families
said they ran away. This is getting

547
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:20.079
ugly. We want to leave when
they told Jones, we' re leaving,

548
00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:24.280
he told them perfect ready. But
the first attempt they made when they

549
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:29.880
went to the airport, well to
say airport, that is to say a

550
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:32.639
lot to the runway to pick it
up, there were armed men who prevented

551
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:37.039
them from arriving. This information.
They sent her to her relatives, to

552
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:39.960
the United States, and some of
them had ties to Congress. And that

553
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:45.360
' s when this man that Alexander
already spoke very well to us, saying

554
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:49.639
what the sheath is already and indeed, that' s when he comes to

555
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:52.079
make the visit. The congressman.
They allow him to visit all over the

556
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:58.360
world, but family members begin to
pass on small pieces of paper and signal

557
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:02.280
us out of here. Come on, get us out of here. And

558
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:06.599
that' s when they go hiding. And as Alejandro put it very well

559
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:12.800
Jones sends his people back and for
those who are very curious, that was

560
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:17.960
recorded why. Because, as Alejandro
said, the congressman was accompanied by teams

561
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.119
of journalists and recording and the attack
was recorded, that is, the time

562
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:28.440
when these people were killed was recorded
and, yes, I repeat, as

563
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:36.320
Alejandro mentioned, that was the turning
point for Jones to say something. But

564
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:40.159
look I would like to make an
observation here because sometimes and I say it

565
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:45.519
because it happened to me for a
long time, with many cases, one

566
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:51.599
begins to repeat the information by inertia
in order not to apply that critical thought

567
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:58.079
with judgment. And it' s
just that we tend to remember this episode

568
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:01.800
of Jim Jones as a suicide I
read it, and it really wasn'

569
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:07.360
t like that. While it is
true, hundreds of people decided to take

570
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:16.039
their cyanide cotel from other people who
were injected and forced to drink. People

571
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:22.280
who were part of the circle close
to Jim Jones. I mean, this

572
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:29.159
wasn' t just a collective suicide, it was also a homicide and more.

573
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:35.639
In fact, if you search in
networks, there is the video of

574
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:40.760
one of the people who survived and
saw when his family was forced to,

575
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:45.320
his little girl and his wife,
his little girl in her arms almost forced

576
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:52.199
to drink that cocktail and he too
alone that he did not drink enough.

577
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:59.440
And it' s one of the
few survivors, because there are survivors of

578
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:04.960
collective homicide and collective suicide. Now, doing as rounding this story that Alejandro

579
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.920
told us very well, I would
like Juan Jesús and also being consistent with

580
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:15.159
what we talked about in the first
segment, to point out the following,

581
00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:22.280
a so- called sect that really, from the professional point of view and

582
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:28.320
from the psychological and psychological and criminological
approach, one calls as a group of

583
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.119
coercive persuasion, a group of coercive
manipulation or a group of undue influence.

584
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:37.079
It is worth the key to these
groups and eye that we already mentioned,

585
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:40.719
Alexander and I is not the belief
piles With this and that has to do

586
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:44.440
with what we started talking about a
while ago, I mean, there may

587
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:45.519
be people who believe that the earth
is a course. If you want,

588
00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:52.280
that' s not the problem.
The problem And what characterizes these types of

589
00:47:52.400 --> 00:48:00.239
groups are the techniques that they use
to capture people, because they are techniques

590
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:05.960
you mentioned a while ago, Juanje, are techniques of coercive persuasion that say

591
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:15.639
that colloquially we call brainwashing. That' s what characterizes a sect. Then

592
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:20.960
also for our listeners to land that
there may be rare medium groups of washing

593
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:24.840
in quantum therapy forgiveness. I think
we' re making too much out of

594
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:32.280
them. We' re doing the
publicity big ruana forra during the world those

595
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:38.360
rare quantum or non quantum flat earth
or cubic earth or whatever you want and

596
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:45.559
more that doesn' t make you
a group of this kind, in a

597
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:50.639
cross- quota sect. What turns
them into sects is how a leader,

598
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:54.519
along with a team, begins to
use these brainwashing techniques to capture people,

599
00:48:55.719 --> 00:49:01.519
so that these people end up with
such psychological affectations that develop dependence on the

600
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:09.800
leader and the wishes of the leader. There' s the key to how,

601
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:15.000
what' s really going on with
these groups and why they' re

602
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.079
so hard. First to detect.
And second, and this on the subject

603
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:22.360
of promise, I' m going
to look for the data of a person

604
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:28.519
in Argentina who is an anti-
sect expert because even he and his family

605
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:30.519
I don' t know if Alejandro
has reference to Salbún sabún, there I

606
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:32.679
don' t remember. I'
m him with him. If it'

607
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:36.800
s not my memory Juan, we
spoke in our old stage here in Caracola,

608
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:39.239
at midnight. But yes, live
the last name that he was the

609
00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:43.960
only one who came out, but
the family is still in the exact Acceptances.

610
00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:45.840
Yeah. Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? That' s what

611
00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:51.320
he' s an expert and he
tells this kind of thing then and I

612
00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:53.559
' m going to shut up so
that the professor camel can enlighten us.

613
00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:59.760
But the truth is that I want
to leave a small remark to all of

614
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:04.559
you as well. Look at these
groups not only have to do with religiosity.

615
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:08.679
There are political groups, there are
political sects piled with that. There

616
00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:19.039
are esoteric sects, there are ufological
groups, even philosophical, tangential, piles

617
00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:22.239
with this. I am a commercial
group that are accused of good sect forgiveness

618
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:29.039
and more typical. Exactly yes,
yes, they are tricho sulfological, commercial

619
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:35.000
and imapura even football. Before going
to the pause and to confirm the data

620
00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:39.159
that Don Pablo Salud expert in sects
of Argentina gave us. Thanks to this

621
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:44.679
much yes, but yes, I
remember you made progress with it, yes,

622
00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:47.000
yes. And those who want to
dig deeper, he has his page

623
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:51.800
and, besides, he' s
a leading researcher. In the face of

624
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:57.360
this, I find it very good
and the reflection that has done it not

625
00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:00.480
in the seems genius more important even
than the belief that can make that the

626
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:05.039
Great God is the chicharrón, which
is what I think or that the Great

627
00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:10.440
God is the universal quantum therapy,
is the technique of the band and the

628
00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:13.400
leader yes, indeed, butlue I
will ask you about the technique of the

629
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:15.039
brain bada, that right now there
is no time and then I will give

630
00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:21.599
it also to Camilo, that has
not spoken in this block and we were

631
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:25.559
already closing the story of Jiang jones
and the sect, the temple of the

632
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:30.760
people that Edwindolo gave us there are
some notes that I did not know and

633
00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:35.360
I have remained in shock And the
one that has not spoken that we have

634
00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:37.519
opinion is Mr Camilo Manjarrea. What
do you think of all this madness,

635
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:38.880
of the sect, of the temple, of the people. Yes, John

636
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:43.920
who, as Edwin mentioned very well, is very interesting, since there are

637
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:47.400
some accounts that are hardly mentioned about
what Jian Jones did, and that is

638
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:52.159
that he mentioned the passages of the
Bible, along with texts by Carls Mars

639
00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:57.440
and what is more, he achieved
to have up to six zero followers in

640
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:01.519
this group. It' s a
cult. And the other curious thing,

641
00:52:01.880 --> 00:52:08.400
Juan, is that the punishments that
he implemented were quite disturbing to the young

642
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:14.800
children he threw into a hole that
they called the torture hole, and the

643
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:20.000
teenagers were placed electric shocks on their
genitals, that is, he was a

644
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:24.559
pretty atrocious person what he made super
cruel, that is, super- clever

645
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:30.920
and it seems to be a lie
what mental control he had of the people

646
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:36.079
who were in the sect to see
that your son was being electrically flushed into

647
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:39.719
his genitals and not to go with
forgiveness from his face, which is the

648
00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:45.960
least that this gentleman would deserve at
that moment. Edwin Holaya, how can

649
00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:50.599
you sum up that I don'
t believe what these brain- ford techniques

650
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:52.239
are like, because I think these
people don' t even study psychology,

651
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:54.880
but it' s just that it
comes out naturally. Yes, in fact,

652
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:58.760
they' re very intuitive. Some
have reviewed some kind of material,

653
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:06.119
but they are usually very intuitive because
and if you allow me, we would

654
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:10.320
like me to discuss in the last
block what happens to people, what is

655
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:14.320
really in the head of people who
end up being caught by a sect.

656
00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:20.000
But for now, regarding what you
tell me, of course, these coercive

657
00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:27.719
persuasion techniques are based on three main
blocks The first environmental and physical control,

658
00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:32.519
The second has to do with emotional
control and the third, which varies greatly

659
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:39.239
from group to group, taking into
account their beliefs, are the production of

660
00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:49.440
dissociative states ok that style, this
apply initiating states. I' ll be

661
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:54.239
right there. Then watch this for
everyone I' ll put us in a

662
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:59.079
position. Let' s think that
someone is starting to offer us participation in

663
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:05.199
a group and it is important that
no group of coercive persuasion is going to

664
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:07.880
show up as the coconut from the
beginning. Why, as we said with

665
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:13.039
John Jesus a moment ago, at
rest, I will say so, at

666
00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:17.760
rest, at break, the leaders
are, these group leaders, they are

667
00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:23.159
very good sellers. Then they'
re going to sell you the best in

668
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:30.079
this group' s world. What
happens when the person is already entering that

669
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:36.440
group. So what starts to develop
is parallel to all controls, but the

670
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:40.199
main one is the environmental and physical
control that has to do with isolating the

671
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:45.559
person. That' s why Jones
wanted to take all his people to another

672
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:53.320
country. Why, Because isolating people
limits coming thought, critical discourses or contradiction

673
00:54:54.199 --> 00:55:02.400
to what is there being your leader. Then my wife will no longer have

674
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:06.199
the opportunity, but she is part
of the group will no longer have the

675
00:55:06.280 --> 00:55:10.119
opportunity to discuss it with me.
That sounds weird. How so go to

676
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:15.960
the North Pole to see Ros'
s ice pipe, Asgar' s big

677
00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:19.239
ice wall And I don' t
know what else. And well, yeah,

678
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:23.719
then we have to isolate him.
Part of this isolation will also be

679
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:30.199
nurtured by the control and manipulation of
information. What kind of information do you

680
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:32.960
think is going to get to the
person who' s been caught. What

681
00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:37.679
the news reports say the first thing
these groups do then is forbid you to

682
00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:42.559
see the media is the first thing
and then what information will come to you

683
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:46.119
the leader of life? And if
the leader gets creative, how did he

684
00:55:46.159 --> 00:55:52.840
just mention camilo to us? If
you start mixing texts by doing a literary

685
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:54.960
potpourri, because that' s what' s going to get to the person,

686
00:55:57.519 --> 00:56:00.239
then notice that I' m there
controlling what' s going to get

687
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:04.599
to this person' s brain.
And, moreover, within that isolation of

688
00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:07.480
information, I am going to create
new language structures, that is, I

689
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:15.079
am going to insert terms, words, concepts that are part of my ideology.

690
00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:21.360
If you allow me the term and
let' s say that this environmental

691
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:27.199
control also extends to the economic,
to the food. Even some have come

692
00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:31.719
to seek physical weakening from the suppression
of food, because, as you well

693
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:36.159
know, John Jesus and Alexander,
from you who like those stories of the

694
00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:40.760
Second War and the whole subject and
the CIA and the whole thing. When

695
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:49.039
I weaken the body, my psychological
resources to face my coping mechanisms, just

696
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:53.400
as it goes to undism. It
is that about what you say to Juange

697
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:58.800
Camilo and the listeners, Paulen Tengue
Mackenzie, a man who was the leader

698
00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:00.719
of this sect that I told them
about in the introduction of the program,

699
00:57:01.079 --> 00:57:06.039
where there were more than 300 people
killed less than half a year ago.

700
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:10.079
The method, or one of the
methods he used to coerce his group'

701
00:57:10.119 --> 00:57:16.559
s followers, was to literally force
them to fast, and in fact,

702
00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:22.159
many of them perished because this man
literally told them to starve, that is,

703
00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:28.199
stop eating And many heeded John that, that is, imagine such a

704
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:32.599
level of control to give him that
suggestion, that is, to have a

705
00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:38.320
person and that person follow him,
despite his biological needs. And what I

706
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:45.239
' m going to say now insult
Juange Vallejo many of these sects. When

707
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:52.519
they impose a veganism without having to
take vitamin B twelve that I have a

708
00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:58.639
vegan cousin and her husband and his
amis nothing happens. The girls are very

709
00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:01.480
healthy and I love that they have
vegetarians. But if I impose a veganism

710
00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:07.760
on you without taking certain vitamin supplements
and so on, your ability to reason

711
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:10.079
will decrease. Science says it,
I don' t say it. Yeah,

712
00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:16.079
sure, yeah, total clear.
I mean, look at how this

713
00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:22.400
control is going very much to limit
the ability of the subject and, obviously,

714
00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:29.000
to what to reduce it? So, there I am working as the

715
00:58:30.199 --> 00:58:36.159
leader of a group in which in
retention mainly, but little by little,

716
00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:42.400
I am also playing with ready indoctrination. The second part of these coercive persuasion

717
00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:46.400
techniques has to do with emotional control. So this is what does the most

718
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:52.480
damage even. I mean, here' s where the psychological and psychiatric repercussions

719
00:58:52.480 --> 00:59:00.440
are, and that' s because
from intimidation techniques, from threat, as

720
00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:05.280
we' ve already seen it with
Jim Jones and we' re going to

721
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:07.719
see it with another case, that
the professor camel is going to present us

722
00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:15.960
at that moment through contempt, humiliation, rejection behaviors, public punishment, to

723
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:21.000
foster, for example, feelings of
guilt towards who you were before you were

724
00:59:21.079 --> 00:59:25.159
in this group and who you can
become if you abandon us, because let

725
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:30.280
' s remember that here the person
already has a feeling of increasing dependence.

726
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:35.280
So, feeling like he doesn'
t have any family outside anymore, that

727
00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:38.880
my family are the ones who are
here, what I' m going to

728
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:43.840
do outside, and besides, how
I might not appreciate what they' re

729
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:47.039
offering me. Then it' s
playing with guilt, also with public shame.

730
00:59:49.239 --> 00:59:53.400
But I also notice with this that
principles of conductism my esteemed John Jesus

731
00:59:53.559 --> 01:00:00.400
Skin was to attack again begins to
positively reinforce the leader with bombings of love.

732
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:06.840
So, if someone does something right, then you' re the best

733
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:13.599
member. You' re the repository
of our legacy. Today double ration of

734
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:16.320
rice for you because you did the
best in the world. And, of

735
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:22.280
course, there' s also punishment
for what I told them about public exhibitions,

736
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:28.039
exemplary expulsions that are often disguised expulsions, because the leader doesn' t

737
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:31.320
want people to go out like that, they don' t flow with ideology.

738
01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:37.559
It' s good for me because
the scapegoat to punish by triangulating others

739
01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:39.519
is good and you were going to
say no. And I' m going

740
01:00:39.559 --> 01:00:42.679
to say one thing that' s
fundamental. When I, at some point

741
01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:47.719
in my life, wrote about this
interviewing other psychologists or psychiatrists in Spain,

742
01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:52.760
imagine a person who has certain family
problems and suddenly comes to a group where

743
01:00:53.239 --> 01:00:58.639
you see something fabulous about reality,
that the rest of people don' t

744
01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:00.920
see, like the end of the
world is coming, that aliens are your

745
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:05.039
friends and also, they give you
the affection that in your house you don

746
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:09.440
' t have total, you have
a new family that is better than yours,

747
01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:17.559
because they give you affection. That
is to say, it is indisputable

748
01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:22.280
and the latest technique is not the
only one, but let us say that

749
01:01:22.400 --> 01:01:27.679
they are the main pillars of the
famous brainwashing is the production of dissociative states.

750
01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:34.400
And this works a lot, especially
when beliefs are religious. Esoteric,

751
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:39.679
pseudo- scientific, even ufological,
because some substances cause trance states, dissociative

752
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:52.599
states of hallucination that the person will
perceive. As the master touched me and

753
01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:59.280
I saw and tasted the colors for
saying something yes clear. So that'

754
01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:07.840
s forgiving mysticism. I move away
from this experience by feeling the person as

755
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:12.320
if it were real. That is
to say, the production of dissociative states

756
01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:16.559
is super powerful and that is why
I say that the person is already totally

757
01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:21.960
withheld here. Well, about what
I was saying, and forgive me for

758
01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:23.559
interrupting you, I swear, but
it just bit my tongue. The third,

759
01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:28.199
what Hassanisa was doing goes with the
Hashashin who was going to tell her,

760
01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:31.000
she was going to say the same
thing, I mean, Hasan was

761
01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:35.079
in the 11th century. He creates
a sixth that are the Hashashings that the

762
01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:38.480
word killer comes from there or hachi
eaters in what he did one day,

763
01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:45.599
because you would take to ingest up
to the amount of hachis and suddenly you

764
01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:50.239
would wake up in one of the
palace to see the Far dus in an

765
01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:57.000
out and then there, suddenly water
fruit beautiful women, the famous virgin you

766
01:02:57.039 --> 01:02:59.559
' re going to see in the
hereafter, in Islam and then, of

767
01:02:59.639 --> 01:03:01.840
course the type of saying again would
sleep it or it would end there and

768
01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:07.320
it would tell him dies for me
and died and of course it would shock

769
01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:12.880
from the Hashaching to his enemies that
he had after killing you did not run

770
01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:15.880
away nothing like that he knew that
helping to stay there because he had a

771
01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:19.840
promise made by his exact leader.
Then, in Islam forgives are the first

772
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:23.199
to be immolated in the name of
God. Sure. Of course, of

773
01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:29.079
course, of course, so what
I wanted to close this tip is that

774
01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:36.400
of course you can use psychoactive substances, but in some groups of coercive persuasion

775
01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:40.360
what has happened is that your target
audience are people who have some kind of

776
01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:46.199
addiction. So what you take advantage
of to violate your psyche is withdrawal syndromes.

777
01:03:47.079 --> 01:03:52.559
For example, they are more bulges, clear, clear and in other

778
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:59.519
groups, clearly not so sophisticated,
then they appeal to the use of mantras,

779
01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:04.519
prayer, meditation, and those who
are a little more elaborate begin to

780
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:11.840
work with hypnosis to generate trance states
or their hypnotic management and all this,

781
01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:17.599
I repeat, to generate a less
end in identity. I repeat that this

782
01:04:17.719 --> 01:04:23.679
is key in the identity of the
person so that it is no longer John

783
01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:29.960
Jesus, Alexander, Camilo or Edwin, but the followers of the leader has

784
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:33.599
remembered me. In addition, for
example, other sects use sex, the

785
01:04:33.719 --> 01:04:39.320
famous Christing, the ones who had
Gregory, Jeffi, Bobich Rapodin, who

786
01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:43.519
were doing a ceremony where they were
turning until they were in trance and then

787
01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:45.719
they told them the big transformation and
then they all started throwing away. But

788
01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:50.519
as crazy as it is worth,
states of stasis came through sex, which

789
01:04:51.079 --> 01:04:54.920
is not an associative state. Of
course, and besides, the twists,

790
01:04:55.239 --> 01:05:00.960
the twisting dance, you who know
a lot about the Middle East, I

791
01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:05.360
souffed him, exactly enough. It
also has a spiritual and religious structure and

792
01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:10.239
the turns, it has been shown, have the capacity, the same capacity

793
01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:14.000
as a hallucinogenic substance. Then it' s all relative. Yes, of

794
01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:16.760
course, then that' s pretty
much not missing. We' re not

795
01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:19.679
going into details. You never know. We have to take care of our

796
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:27.320
listeners. But when this starts to
happen with someone close or with your own

797
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:32.159
batteries, because that' s not
going well, it' s not going

798
01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:35.480
well. And then it gets to
a point where going backwards is very complicated,

799
01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:40.280
very, very complacent. It'
s not very difficult. Look,

800
01:05:41.039 --> 01:05:44.400
if I may, I' d
like to make Camilo' s entrance hatch.

801
01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:49.480
Camilo is going to share a super
shocking, super interesting case with us,

802
01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:58.400
and I can tell you that today
there are still people who are convinced

803
01:05:58.679 --> 01:06:05.239
and profess the ideology of David Corege
Holy Day. There, yes, you

804
01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:09.679
left me a shock and then you
extended it to me, Camila delicacies,

805
01:06:10.079 --> 01:06:15.159
who David Corrige was and what the
davidians were. Yes, juange before entering

806
01:06:15.320 --> 01:06:20.280
this account. To complement what Even
said. One very important thing that we

807
01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:29.599
must not overlook is that we must
understand that this whole subject is not focused

808
01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:33.280
on a social class, but on
different social classes, which I mean there

809
01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:38.960
is a Dutch lingwist or the Netherlands, as you would like to call it

810
01:06:38.960 --> 01:06:42.880
in the name of Van Dick,
who has a text that is called the

811
01:06:43.400 --> 01:06:47.559
analysis of critical discourse, and he
mentions how to understand that analysis that is

812
01:06:47.679 --> 01:06:53.360
through discourse in a critical way,
whether it is an oral speech, written

813
01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:57.360
speech, etcetera, etcetera. And
this seems to me to be extremely important

814
01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:00.440
to mention, since, as we
have said very well, I succeed in

815
01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:02.800
a sect and I read it quickly. I tell the listeners, to you

816
01:07:02.960 --> 01:07:10.800
by name Nexttion, which was founded
by Kit Rainier. This subject, John

817
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:15.360
gem and I want to share with
all the listeners, was sentenced to one

818
01:07:15.400 --> 01:07:21.440
hundred and twenty years in prison just
for practicing sexual slavery, psychological manipulation and

819
01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:27.360
all because, according to his words, he had created a company of name

820
01:07:27.440 --> 01:07:31.800
in Nextion, which was responsible for
being like a motivational coshmo, so to

821
01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:38.320
speak. In nineteen hundred and ninety- eight he founded this company by the

822
01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:45.920
hand of marketing for and practiced seminars
where people had to pay seven thousand five

823
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:51.480
hundred dollars juange to grow and be
better, be it entrepreneurs, better people,

824
01:07:53.320 --> 01:07:58.239
be like visionaries and winners. In
two thousand fifteen, this subject founded

825
01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:02.119
two groups, a secret group called
Group number two, and in this group

826
01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:09.599
juanje Alejo and Edwin. He manipulated
women, physically burning them, i e,

827
01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:14.400
branding them as if they were prayers
as if they were cows, raping

828
01:08:14.559 --> 01:08:20.119
them and forcing them to recruit other
women for their will to rape them.

829
01:08:21.720 --> 01:08:28.359
He also notes a very important fact
that well he was sentenced to 120 years

830
01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:34.880
in prison and a rather important American
actress, named Allison mac who worked on

831
01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:40.279
the Smosvil series. I don'
t know if Alejo or Juan have ever

832
01:08:40.359 --> 01:08:45.680
seen her. Yes, this actress
was one of the ones in charge of

833
01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:51.000
bringing innocent women to rape them,
to be sex slaves. And this young

834
01:08:51.560 --> 01:08:57.520
actress was also sentenced to prison.
But as she testified, she was only

835
01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:01.399
given three years in prison. That
is, a group that was initially founded

836
01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:10.239
for personal development, ended up being
a façade to make a destructive organization with

837
01:09:10.399 --> 01:09:15.359
practices of sexual slavery and psychological manipulation
and a no minor data, already finishing

838
01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:21.640
quickly this company arrived in Mexico in
the two thousand seven and eye members Listen

839
01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:28.399
very well, members of the family
of former President Salinas, were present at

840
01:09:28.479 --> 01:09:32.000
the inauguration of this company and it
is believed that the son of the former

841
01:09:32.119 --> 01:09:38.199
president, Carlos Salinas, had contacts
with this subject, with kitt Reinier and

842
01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:43.079
also reached women for that BBC source
sect. I' m not making this

843
01:09:43.079 --> 01:09:45.000
up. I don' t,
but I think it' s great that

844
01:09:45.039 --> 01:09:49.920
I was over two thousand seven is
three days ago here the key, plus,

845
01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:53.399
that' s what Edwin said,
that this kind of group is worth.

846
01:09:53.479 --> 01:09:56.520
I' ve been messing with the
terraplanists and it seems to me like

847
01:09:56.600 --> 01:10:00.399
I' m fooling the terraplanists,
but it' s not the paranoia that

848
01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:03.880
' s going on now, because
it reminds me at the beginning of a

849
01:10:03.960 --> 01:10:08.560
perfect teraplanist sect, but it doesn' t start to give you quantum therapy

850
01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:09.079
to start improving your life and get
out of the womb. That already smells

851
01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:12.479
super ugly to me It' s
worth the business. Juange the business and

852
01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:15.840
try all that business. But,
for example, they fixed it is not

853
01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:17.359
that Camilo Manjarred has told that he
does not stop. He screwed up the

854
01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:20.159
scripts, but he' s telling
you what he wants. I' m

855
01:10:20.199 --> 01:10:24.399
going to tell you what' s
mine, but it' s really good

856
01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:28.960
what Camilo van cart Es says.
There was no need for a spiritual subject

857
01:10:29.079 --> 01:10:31.720
and I don' t know what. No, no, no, no,

858
01:10:31.960 --> 01:10:38.199
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

859
01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:39.439
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

860
01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:39.439
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

861
01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:39.439
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

862
01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:44.720
I loved what Camilo said because I
thought it was one thing. But

863
01:10:44.840 --> 01:10:47.880
tremendous, that is to say,
be very careful with messiahs, whether in

864
01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:53.159
the field from the economic, in
the business, in the football or in

865
01:10:53.399 --> 01:10:57.399
the omnis, in anything. Take
care of the messiahs that I don'

866
01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:00.399
t trust much of them and now
yes, although we have five minutes to

867
01:11:00.479 --> 01:11:03.840
finish this block then don' t
worry, Camilo, because we can go

868
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:08.880
on the next who was David Correge
and the famous davidians that I think a

869
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:12.600
lot of the people who heard us
and were talking off the bus before the

870
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:16.479
first time I saw there on television
an incredible shooting around a sect and this

871
01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:19.199
was one thing that shocked me teen
count. What happened and who this character

872
01:11:19.239 --> 01:11:24.840
was. Camilo, Yes, John, what good did we start from the

873
01:11:25.119 --> 01:11:30.560
fact that the Davidians were actually two
religious sects that were the Davidians and the

874
01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:34.399
branch of the Davidians, that is, the branch? What happens these sects,

875
01:11:34.520 --> 01:11:41.399
which were totally different. One emerges
in a thousand nine hundred and thirty

876
01:11:41.640 --> 01:11:46.119
known as the Davidians and its founder
was a lord who already died by the

877
01:11:46.119 --> 01:11:51.720
name of Victor Poncel, and after
his death arises this new stream called the

878
01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:57.800
branch of the Lavillanos. What happens
to the group of traditional Davidians, as

879
01:11:57.880 --> 01:12:02.840
I mentioned. This is this founder
who was born in Bulgaria on March 2,

880
01:12:03.239 --> 01:12:09.960
1880. He therefore decided to emigrate
to the United States and in this

881
01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:14.119
place, in Texas, precisely in
Waco, He therefore decides to create as

882
01:12:14.279 --> 01:12:18.359
this new religion. As I have
mentioned, this subject dies and this branch

883
01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:25.119
of the Davidians arises. In this
second branch that arises reaches a rather peculiar

884
01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:32.840
person named David Correge. This character
Juange Edvin and Alejo was in charge of

885
01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:40.399
practically committing or so calling it a
barbaric massacre, because Coris was born in

886
01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:45.199
Texas, but Eye, his real
name was Bernond Howell. He was the

887
01:12:45.680 --> 01:12:51.199
son of a woman who had him
quite young, a teenage mother who sadly

888
01:12:51.279 --> 01:12:56.720
abandoned him and left him in the
care of his grandfather starting from this,

889
01:12:56.960 --> 01:13:00.399
as he already began with a rather
difficult life. His childhood was lonely.

890
01:13:00.439 --> 01:13:06.319
Juan Ge did not like to relate
to other people. It is also up

891
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:09.920
to him to have president who no
one took care of him, that is,

892
01:13:10.279 --> 01:13:15.319
because his grandmother did take care of
him, but because he did as

893
01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:21.119
the kite from time to time,
and Eye, on some occasions was raped

894
01:13:21.239 --> 01:13:26.960
and beaten by older and younger boys
of him, According to it mentioned,

895
01:13:27.560 --> 01:13:31.000
Juan Gel was also constant sexual abuse
suffered by older men and it is believed

896
01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:33.000
that at some time he was also
a victim. She gave a rape at

897
01:13:33.079 --> 01:13:39.239
the school itself. What happens when
time passed she, when this character,

898
01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:44.960
David Coris, grew up, he
was more or less adult, decided to

899
01:13:45.119 --> 01:13:50.159
deepen his studies in biblical readings and
began to attend the Southern Baptist Church n

900
01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:55.000
In this place, he stayed for
a while, but, as it was

901
01:13:55.159 --> 01:14:00.600
not much to his liking and decided
to leave this place quickly and decided to

902
01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:05.760
visit his mother, who belonged to
the Seventh- day Adventist Church. Here,

903
01:14:05.800 --> 01:14:11.600
she had a little relationship with her. It began as if to resume

904
01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:15.479
those bonds between mother and son,
but not in an ideal way. In

905
01:14:15.600 --> 01:14:20.840
a thousand nine hundred and eighty-
one, this subject to Cores made the

906
01:14:20.880 --> 01:14:27.520
decision to move to Huaco Juang in
Texas and there he began in the branch

907
01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:30.760
of the Davidians. As I mentioned, what' s going on? This

908
01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:38.479
branch was characterized by their distrust of
the outside world and they simply perceived the

909
01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:42.439
outside world as a constant threat.
I mean, they didn' t want

910
01:14:42.640 --> 01:14:45.239
to have contact with the outside world. For this reason, they decided to

911
01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:54.880
have firearms and ammunition, as they
distrusted outsiders. A few years later,

912
01:14:55.880 --> 01:15:00.479
just two years later, this guy
had an affair with the leader of this

913
01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:04.520
sect, a sixty- year-
old lady. Right now, David Corrige.

914
01:15:05.079 --> 01:15:08.920
At that time he was only twenty- three, twenty- four.

915
01:15:09.279 --> 01:15:14.399
Then, for there was a fairly
wide difference in ages and he at this

916
01:15:14.399 --> 01:15:18.800
point, he then proclaimed himself as
the supreme God, that he had had

917
01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:24.920
a vision of God and had given
him a gift which he was supposed to

918
01:15:25.159 --> 01:15:29.279
beget. Well, he had to
give life to a new messiah, so

919
01:15:29.319 --> 01:15:31.920
to speak, he had self-
proclaimed a messiah and so on, he

920
01:15:32.039 --> 01:15:35.279
said he was going to bring to
life or a new messiah. For this

921
01:15:35.800 --> 01:15:41.680
reason he had the right to rape
different women of the sect, because he

922
01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:45.279
said that he had to have a
child. So, he was messing with

923
01:15:45.800 --> 01:15:49.960
girls, with teenagers and older women
with the thing that I had to have

924
01:15:50.039 --> 01:15:54.680
sex with her, because of some
na it would be the right messiah,

925
01:15:54.840 --> 01:16:00.800
John, with that excuse so sought
after day, holy that authentic, I

926
01:16:00.840 --> 01:16:02.199
have to cut you camel what we
are getting to the end of block,

927
01:16:02.600 --> 01:16:06.920
but then you keep telling us that
story and the beliefs of these davidians that

928
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:10.920
are crazy, that I imagine they
will turn like everything back to primitive Christianity.

929
01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:13.560
We all live in community. We' re, well, I didn

930
01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:17.640
' t go to the others.
Finally the usual was telling us Camilo Manjarres,

931
01:16:18.239 --> 01:16:23.560
the belief of the Davidians and good
that they are a sect within a

932
01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:28.560
sect. This is already a crazy
thing about this David Corres, who has

933
01:16:28.640 --> 01:16:32.079
a fer with a lady who was
the leader of the sect, has a

934
01:16:32.840 --> 01:16:36.600
vision, says that of him they
are going to make the new messiah and

935
01:16:36.680 --> 01:16:41.119
that was the excuse to have sex
with all the people who were there and

936
01:16:41.239 --> 01:16:46.359
how this crazy story follows. Camilo
Juis Juan arrived in the year of one

937
01:16:46.439 --> 01:16:50.920
thousand nine hundred and ninety- three
and, according to the evidence or would

938
01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:57.520
have this subject by the State Department, the leader and the Taavidians committed acts

939
01:16:57.560 --> 01:17:00.800
of rape and child abuse against girls
within eight and eleven years. That is

940
01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:06.960
to say a rather despicable being what
this subject was doing, as in the

941
01:17:08.079 --> 01:17:11.439
Community he had weapons, as mentioned
above, and ammunition and so on.

942
01:17:11.920 --> 01:17:16.319
These circumstances gave the proper excuse to
the officers of the Tobacco Alcohol Bureau and

943
01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:23.640
Gambling Weapons and Explosives to TF which
is an extremely important agency in North America

944
01:17:23.720 --> 01:17:29.800
that has almost the same level of
importance as I asked for to investigate them.

945
01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:33.239
The year of nine hundred and ninety- two Juan arrives that Alejo and

946
01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:40.319
Edvin, and this is where the
FBI is constantly beginning to monitor that sect.

947
01:17:40.720 --> 01:17:44.960
They start to go to this place
closely, they get close to a

948
01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:48.039
building and they start to keep an
eye on them because they find it rather

949
01:17:48.119 --> 01:17:55.439
peculiar what is happening here. The
Davidians armed themselves and took defense positions when

950
01:17:55.720 --> 01:18:00.640
they realized that the F V is
firing them. Moreover, as mentioned,

951
01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:03.880
it is believed that there was an
agent of faith who was infiltrated and,

952
01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:08.760
because of this it was that this
sect this group of people realized that they

953
01:18:08.840 --> 01:18:14.600
were spying on them at a time. It has not been possible to determine

954
01:18:14.640 --> 01:18:20.720
who started the dispute. Both FBI
agents and people from this group are starting

955
01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:25.000
to shoot each other. He'
s a cult in ninety- two,

956
01:18:25.279 --> 01:18:28.399
and there' s a blast of
fire. Juan, obviously, there are

957
01:18:28.520 --> 01:18:33.800
others injured, but not that up
there they end up in a certain way

958
01:18:33.880 --> 01:18:38.079
like the shooting, in case he
did it in colloquial words. And so,

959
01:18:38.239 --> 01:18:44.199
the FBI decides to cut the electricity, decide to remove the water and

960
01:18:44.479 --> 01:18:49.279
put music with quite large speakers,
but not pretty music, as listeners were

961
01:18:49.279 --> 01:18:56.159
thinking, but music like metals two, yes, yes, perctally psychological tortures

962
01:18:56.199 --> 01:19:01.279
and after metal sounds of pigs that
are as mated as good. So he

963
01:19:01.359 --> 01:19:05.920
took Noriega out of the house,
the dictator of Panama did not stand twenty

964
01:19:06.279 --> 01:19:08.880
- four hours with the music all
over the place. That is to say,

965
01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:14.560
I have also used that tactic of
psychological manipulation by the United States military

966
01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:16.600
against gedcounheen Vietnam. I mean,
it wasn' t a new tactic.

967
01:19:16.680 --> 01:19:21.199
Oh, no, you don'
t think it' s silly like that,

968
01:19:23.479 --> 01:19:28.720
but put 24 hours to listen to
a metal after metal and nasty sounds

969
01:19:28.720 --> 01:19:32.680
in a reggaeton hold. Or remember, it' s worse torture. So

970
01:19:32.800 --> 01:19:38.479
because you cast the Hasel Rashmen and
man forgiveness. That' s torture,

971
01:19:38.840 --> 01:19:42.399
that' s attempted murder. But, well, how do we agree?

972
01:19:45.119 --> 01:19:49.000
Keep walking, right, don'
t worry. Well, then what happens?

973
01:19:49.600 --> 01:19:55.000
This technique is torture. It lasts
fifty- one days, John driving

974
01:19:55.000 --> 01:19:58.680
away, and that is fifty-
two, fifty- one day, with

975
01:19:58.880 --> 01:20:04.720
that music, water without electricity and
with these rather large speakers. After these

976
01:20:04.800 --> 01:20:11.079
fights, there are obviously several wounded, several dead and in the last few

977
01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:16.000
days you know how to set fire
to the whole place. Juange, because

978
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:18.399
he says well, here we all
go. But I mean, I didn

979
01:20:18.399 --> 01:20:23.279
' t go to. He works
to see and this subject sets fire to

980
01:20:23.399 --> 01:20:29.560
this place, thus leaving several dead
and ending his own life. The photographs

981
01:20:29.680 --> 01:20:34.920
are quite strong because they were able
to take pictures of how the corpses of

982
01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:41.039
these people were left and the videos
circulating is quite, or disturbing. It

983
01:20:41.199 --> 01:20:46.399
looks like a little war because they
see fire fired, which is a rather

984
01:20:46.479 --> 01:20:50.079
sad and unfortunate event that happened in
Huaco, Texas. Yes, this was

985
01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:55.680
crazy because it actually lasted, it
lasted relatively long and not even just the

986
01:20:56.479 --> 01:21:00.960
FBI agents and they took SWAT and
there was no way in, because they

987
01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:05.640
were shooting tremendous shots right away.
I remember at that time one of the

988
01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:12.119
scenes that is some policemen or members
of the suat climbing up a ladder,

989
01:21:12.479 --> 01:21:15.439
down a side near a window and
like a window, comes out a guy

990
01:21:15.560 --> 01:21:20.000
shoots and loads it. It is
a very crazy thing, not that I

991
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:24.880
think it had to do also good, because with this issue of returning to

992
01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:28.840
early Christianity, we are a hermandate. What' s out there is negative,

993
01:21:29.159 --> 01:21:36.079
the paranoia of a leader. That
is true here with a total sexual

994
01:21:36.079 --> 01:21:43.279
component, absolutely tremendous and with some
absurd components of violence. And I think

995
01:21:43.279 --> 01:21:46.840
the question for Vidding olo Haya is
a must. The fact that he had

996
01:21:46.920 --> 01:21:54.800
such a violent childhood. Possibly it
also marked that violence he was doing in

997
01:21:54.840 --> 01:22:00.199
the group and that violent ending of
the group, what sorrows with him comes

998
01:22:00.239 --> 01:22:03.159
in what sorrows with you or I
really have a little question for Evin.

999
01:22:03.239 --> 01:22:09.800
I was also looking for information,
reading and I realized that there is a

1000
01:22:09.920 --> 01:22:14.560
psychologist in American surname, Carlos Rogers, who has a rather interesting theory,

1001
01:22:14.920 --> 01:22:19.640
which is the theory of phenomenology.
And so he practically mentions that each person

1002
01:22:19.800 --> 01:22:26.039
perceives the world and reality in a
particular way, that is, each person,

1003
01:22:26.479 --> 01:22:31.800
from his experiences, builds his own
reality. That is, when this

1004
01:22:31.920 --> 01:22:36.600
subject David Curris, he believed that
he had this vision of God which commanded

1005
01:22:36.600 --> 01:22:43.520
him to have relations with women.
I' m going to apply this theory

1006
01:22:43.520 --> 01:22:46.439
of phenomenology, or it can be
as John suddenly said a disorder because of

1007
01:22:46.520 --> 01:22:51.680
what happened to him in his super- okay youth ready. Well, what

1008
01:22:51.800 --> 01:22:55.880
' s going on? We'
re all starting from the certainty that he

1009
01:22:55.880 --> 01:23:00.840
was abused and it turns out the
investigation didn' t show everything he said.

1010
01:23:01.439 --> 01:23:04.880
And here I' m going to
get into the profile of the leaders

1011
01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:10.640
remember a while ago when I told
them that they rebuild themselves that they assume

1012
01:23:10.640 --> 01:23:17.000
a role. It turns out that
many times they pose a difficult history of

1013
01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:28.319
childhood, of social, political,
economic difficulties that supposedly use it because it

1014
01:23:28.439 --> 01:23:32.960
did not happen to tell their future
adherents. See what I got by believing

1015
01:23:33.079 --> 01:23:39.039
in what I believe. Think you
can accomplish by believing in what I believe

1016
01:23:39.159 --> 01:23:46.640
in that order of ideas About Edvit
Gorege, the stories he told about abuse.

1017
01:23:47.800 --> 01:23:53.199
The vast majority could not really be
verified. Yes, which is more

1018
01:23:53.239 --> 01:23:56.680
or less the same thing that happened
with Garavito when he said he had been

1019
01:23:56.760 --> 01:24:00.840
abused and the whole thing and despite
the inquiries that were made it was not

1020
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:08.279
possible to verify then. But rather, beyond this circumstance, the truth is

1021
01:24:08.720 --> 01:24:15.680
that exposure in childhood to violent situations
may not favor it so much that it

1022
01:24:15.800 --> 01:24:18.600
replicates it, because that is a
hypothesis that has already been reconsidered and has

1023
01:24:18.680 --> 01:24:26.000
almost been invalidated, undone, yes, completely discarded that I was a victim

1024
01:24:26.079 --> 01:24:30.319
of violence. Then I' ll, later, replicate it. Not the

1025
01:24:30.399 --> 01:24:32.720
interpretation that today is given more and
has to do with what Camilo mentions,

1026
01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:42.479
only from other psychology fronts that are
backed up. It is evident that the

1027
01:24:42.600 --> 01:24:48.880
naturalization of violence occurs as a mechanism
to achieve a particular goal. However,

1028
01:24:49.279 --> 01:24:53.520
let' s see that here he
did not get his people with violence.

1029
01:24:55.560 --> 01:25:00.960
His violent response was when the FEDERA
agents arrived and why Juan Jesús, Alejandro

1030
01:25:01.039 --> 01:25:08.760
Camilo and the listeners use Twitter.
I' m saying Twitter because I'

1031
01:25:08.960 --> 01:25:10.920
m not three X anymore. I
don' t get used to x.

1032
01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:17.039
But when you' re doing something
you like to be satisfied with, eating

1033
01:25:17.159 --> 01:25:23.600
watching a movie, I don'
t know being on a very satisfying stage

1034
01:25:23.680 --> 01:25:26.479
and someone comes to interrupt you and
tell you they can' t do it.

1035
01:25:26.760 --> 01:25:31.720
What is the human response, immediate, aggressiveness, clear resistance. The

1036
01:25:31.880 --> 01:25:35.600
IRA comes out because in addition,
the IRA is an emotion of defense.

1037
01:25:35.720 --> 01:25:41.319
When I feel threatened. And the
truth is that David and watch this he

1038
01:25:41.680 --> 01:25:46.079
really and that are told by several
of his former followers, he did not

1039
01:25:46.239 --> 01:25:51.439
believe what he was saying. Let' s go back to jim' s

1040
01:25:51.439 --> 01:25:56.000
all that wagon. I mean,
there are very few leaders of coercive persuasion

1041
01:25:56.119 --> 01:26:01.560
groups who believe what they' re
saying. The vast majority are a libretto.

1042
01:26:03.720 --> 01:26:11.039
The rest is the hook as psychopaths. Then a Juange performance is a

1043
01:26:11.119 --> 01:26:15.399
performance. That' s why I
was telling you a moment ago, you

1044
01:26:15.560 --> 01:26:17.119
' re the best sellers on the
face of the earth. Of course they

1045
01:26:17.199 --> 01:26:20.479
have a target audience for that.
Now we talk a little bit. But

1046
01:26:20.640 --> 01:26:26.039
the truth is, they don'
t believe that story. They really what

1047
01:26:26.119 --> 01:26:30.800
they' re looking for through that
lib and Breto are three three move three

1048
01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:35.319
main motivations and that' s ultra
mega documented. First money, second sex,

1049
01:26:35.720 --> 01:26:44.840
third power and are not mutually exclusive. Then and why these motivations are

1050
01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:50.399
clear, because in them the vast
majority are not even psychotic eyes. They

1051
01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:59.359
have narcissistic personality disorders, which makes
them feel that they should be a source

1052
01:26:59.439 --> 01:27:05.720
of recognized constant. And the narcissist, because of his psychopathological characteristics, is

1053
01:27:05.840 --> 01:27:12.560
going to constantly manipulate and he is
going to perceive others as objects, which

1054
01:27:13.279 --> 01:27:18.720
was what Deaddy did running in Waico, when the first line of fire he

1055
01:27:18.880 --> 01:27:24.960
put after the initial confrontation that Camilo
told us, was women and children,

1056
01:27:25.319 --> 01:27:31.640
when the ATF, along with the
local police teams and the Suat team had

1057
01:27:31.720 --> 01:27:35.960
not yet arrived their at dell FBI, because at the time everyone arrived they

1058
01:27:36.039 --> 01:27:42.279
established a line of communication because,
clearly, as in the case of Jim

1059
01:27:42.319 --> 01:27:45.880
Jones, there were people who wanted
to get out and were not allowed,

1060
01:27:46.199 --> 01:27:51.760
and these people were dissatisfied with the
ideology and with what was happening, especially

1061
01:27:51.840 --> 01:27:59.600
with the girls who started arguing between
them. And, as Camilo mentions,

1062
01:28:00.199 --> 01:28:02.800
it' s not that it'
s believed, it' s that there

1063
01:28:03.079 --> 01:28:09.520
really was an undercover person because that
group was already being the object of interest

1064
01:28:09.600 --> 01:28:14.399
for months by the authorities, when
enough evidence was already available. First of

1065
01:28:14.520 --> 01:28:18.640
arms and second of abuse is that
it was decided, very wrongly that the

1066
01:28:18.720 --> 01:28:25.439
incursion was to be armed. There
was the first flaw in this circumstance in

1067
01:28:25.880 --> 01:28:30.000
this situation forgiveness, so what does
Korrese do when hell is already unleashed,

1068
01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:38.119
say, on the telephone line with
negotiators who, if they enter, what

1069
01:28:38.119 --> 01:28:42.279
they are going to face is with
children and armed women and in fact,

1070
01:28:42.560 --> 01:28:49.880
there are videos of armed children around
the estate. And that caused the armed

1071
01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:57.560
incursion to be restricted, limited.
And that' s when a great negotiation

1072
01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:00.359
begins that led to the application not
only of what I walk from music,

1073
01:29:00.840 --> 01:29:05.760
but of other kinds of psychological techniques. I wouldn' t say torture,

1074
01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:13.439
because torture would involve another psychological phenomenon, but it would be a strategy and

1075
01:29:13.479 --> 01:29:16.640
I' m going to stick to
the examples that you put John Jesus and

1076
01:29:16.840 --> 01:29:23.000
Alexander, and that is saturation,
sensory overstimulation. What is sought is to

1077
01:29:23.359 --> 01:29:28.560
diminish the capacity of reason and defense
of the individuals to accept another type of

1078
01:29:28.720 --> 01:29:32.600
reasoning, another type of proposal,
in this case it was to deliver women

1079
01:29:32.640 --> 01:29:38.640
and children and then we arrange among
men words more, words less, besides

1080
01:29:38.640 --> 01:29:41.640
that there were different teams of negotiators. That' s why it lasted so

1081
01:29:41.640 --> 01:29:47.439
long. What happens to being Korege, a narcissist, pathological, ultra confident

1082
01:29:47.600 --> 01:29:53.199
of himself, with a charisma,
with a persuasion and believed to be the

1083
01:29:53.479 --> 01:30:01.199
ultimate coke tail in the desert.
We say the ones over 40. What

1084
01:30:01.279 --> 01:30:04.960
' s going on? He decides
yes, to set the fire. In

1085
01:30:05.039 --> 01:30:11.760
fact, he gave the order to
his seconds to set fire. But notice

1086
01:30:11.880 --> 01:30:14.680
that what I' m going to
mention to you is the determining detail.

1087
01:30:15.279 --> 01:30:21.920
Korege was seriously injured. He wasn' t going to give himself up alive

1088
01:30:21.960 --> 01:30:26.119
or let them find his body.
That' s why he gave the order

1089
01:30:26.239 --> 01:30:30.239
to burn all God is because he
was already going to die, he was

1090
01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:34.439
going to lose, but he was
going to lose on his terms, with

1091
01:30:34.960 --> 01:30:38.600
everything around him, with everything around
him. Camilo said so, more than

1092
01:30:38.680 --> 01:30:44.159
fifty- so many people dead,
more than two dozen injured. In fact,

1093
01:30:44.199 --> 01:30:48.399
it was so media coverage that the
extremes of one group and the extremes

1094
01:30:48.520 --> 01:30:53.840
of the other were noticed. I' m talking about Korege' s group

1095
01:30:55.399 --> 01:30:59.560
and the police that even an anecdote
here, a pretty dark anecdote. I

1096
01:30:59.640 --> 01:31:03.279
say I get to think a lot
about the nature of evil in the spiritual

1097
01:31:03.279 --> 01:31:08.439
plane, and it is that many
people came to see what was happening.

1098
01:31:09.119 --> 01:31:13.199
While it is true, the police
set up a barricade and a security cordon

1099
01:31:13.279 --> 01:31:16.840
so that they would not approach the
property to the estate. There were many

1100
01:31:16.920 --> 01:31:21.760
people who came to see what was
happening and to support Correge and one of

1101
01:31:21.800 --> 01:31:28.319
the people who came to support him
was a little boy named Timothy mc bath.

1102
01:31:30.279 --> 01:31:34.720
Already Alejandro began to head like a
bus dog saying that' s the

1103
01:31:35.760 --> 01:31:42.760
digity data and mc bay came to
support it because he saw that what the

1104
01:31:42.960 --> 01:31:47.279
United States government was doing was an
abuse, because every American has the right

1105
01:31:47.359 --> 01:31:50.359
to do with his life and to
have the weapons he wanted. For those

1106
01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:57.399
of you who don' t know, I' m going to let Alejandro

1107
01:31:58.000 --> 01:32:02.640
tell us a little bit about the
microhistory of what this spectator of Huaiko'

1108
01:32:02.720 --> 01:32:10.600
s attack by the name Timothy mcdade
Alejandro mar did in a thousand nine hundred

1109
01:32:10.880 --> 01:32:17.279
or not And since he linked with
what was said by Edven author in material

1110
01:32:17.760 --> 01:32:24.439
and intellectual of a big bombing in
Oklahoma, a terrorist attack that until before

1111
01:32:24.520 --> 01:32:29.720
eleven that had probably been the most
important terrorist attack that had occurred in the

1112
01:32:29.920 --> 01:32:31.439
United States in that first half of
the 1990s. Another interesting detail that goes

1113
01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:36.520
beyond what Evin says with this Oklahoma
story, it turns out that Dylan Cliblet

1114
01:32:36.680 --> 01:32:43.159
and Eric Harris, the boys who
perpetrated the Codon Vine massacre, said or

1115
01:32:43.520 --> 01:32:46.680
at least according to some investigators,
that what they were doing or what they

1116
01:32:46.800 --> 01:32:53.760
did at that school in Colombine was
a demand of David Correge' s movement.

1117
01:32:54.359 --> 01:33:00.439
Imagine John Jesus in the late nineties
the exact dexas, i e,

1118
01:33:00.000 --> 01:33:04.279
imagine as one act of violence is
infused with two others, in this case

1119
01:33:04.319 --> 01:33:09.399
the bombing of Oklahoma and the codomb
Bye. Now about Huaiko, which I

1120
01:33:09.760 --> 01:33:14.800
find this story fascinating. Juan ge
Edwin, Camilo and listeners, was the

1121
01:33:14.960 --> 01:33:24.119
largest military deployment in U S history
against civilians. More than six hundred and

1122
01:33:24.119 --> 01:33:31.039
sixty people, sixty- ten Bradley
Juange tanks ten Bradley tanks employed in this

1123
01:33:31.079 --> 01:33:34.680
case the United States armed forces to
attend to this contingency. Crazy now about

1124
01:33:34.920 --> 01:33:40.880
what Camilo was telling us and a
very important detail. When Korege began to

1125
01:33:40.880 --> 01:33:46.439
arm himself to the teeth and began
to investigate the amount of money they invested

1126
01:33:46.520 --> 01:33:53.279
in buying weapons and so on,
Juange realized that this gentleman had invested more

1127
01:33:53.439 --> 01:34:00.560
than$ 250, 000 in a
prano this for weapons and of course the

1128
01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:03.760
authorities said, so that some civilians
want to spend so much money on weapons.

1129
01:34:04.159 --> 01:34:09.680
That was one of the first alarms
that made the authorities focus on this

1130
01:34:09.800 --> 01:34:13.880
group. Jorge isn' t really
crazy. That is, and then,

1131
01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:17.399
for example, the fact that olaya
said very nice that the urban legend and

1132
01:34:17.439 --> 01:34:21.119
he said he had sexual abuse of
girl blah blah blah blah. There is

1133
01:34:21.159 --> 01:34:27.039
absolutely nothing proven, that is also
by becoming the victim and that he was

1134
01:34:27.159 --> 01:34:32.720
able to overcome adversities and such to
have his group controlled. And then,

1135
01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:38.319
for the usual is not something that
is based on Christian philosophy, when the

1136
01:34:38.319 --> 01:34:44.640
principle of Christian philosophy tells us the
opposite. How can you deform so much

1137
01:34:44.800 --> 01:34:49.520
that you end up in this madness
and I think it is the case of

1138
01:34:50.119 --> 01:34:55.000
Sectama Apura because of what happened during
so many more media days of history and

1139
01:34:56.279 --> 01:35:00.960
other supreme truth in Japan And such, but none I believe that you that

1140
01:35:00.560 --> 01:35:04.000
repercussion so tremendous and fixed that it
is six minutes to finish the program to

1141
01:35:04.000 --> 01:35:06.720
innovate. Time to count and life
is yours. We had put in the

1142
01:35:06.840 --> 01:35:10.399
script five sects and it has given
time to count. Two. I can

1143
01:35:10.520 --> 01:35:13.119
give two strokes of Heavens Gate,
but since it makes me even ashamed,

1144
01:35:13.439 --> 01:35:16.760
because for what we are going to
tell almost it is not worth it better

1145
01:35:17.359 --> 01:35:20.239
or let everyone speak. And so, if it is true, I am

1146
01:35:20.359 --> 01:35:27.640
going to give myself a brushstroke of
Heavens Gate, which caused in March of

1147
01:35:27.640 --> 01:35:30.880
the year one thousand nine hundred ninety- seven thirty- nine dead. And

1148
01:35:30.039 --> 01:35:36.439
this is a case that bothers me
especially because, if you use the extraterrestrial

1149
01:35:36.479 --> 01:35:39.359
theme and the theme of the omnis, which is something that I have dedicated

1150
01:35:39.359 --> 01:35:45.000
to an important part of my life
and the years, two crucial people in

1151
01:35:45.079 --> 01:35:50.800
marches, apple Wade and Bonny Nettels. I think Marsha apple Wade freaks out

1152
01:35:50.920 --> 01:35:57.920
when his partner dies, even though
he was gay. The sentimental companion,

1153
01:35:58.000 --> 01:36:00.920
but he was, he was gay
and, well, he had a crazy,

1154
01:36:01.279 --> 01:36:03.880
crazy, in the sense that he
said he was getting a message from

1155
01:36:04.039 --> 01:36:12.439
aliens. And besides, well,
not only that, but he plays with

1156
01:36:12.560 --> 01:36:16.039
the theme that Jesus Christ was extraterrestrial
as another group how we advertise soli,

1157
01:36:16.199 --> 01:36:23.520
for example, in Italy he plays
with this and, well, terrible this

1158
01:36:24.479 --> 01:36:30.039
whole story that ends, even though
everyone ingests a cocktail of vodka and barbiturates.

1159
01:36:30.840 --> 01:36:33.520
If not authentic, not authentic,
madness is good, but anyway,

1160
01:36:33.720 --> 01:36:38.760
well, don' t trust the
subject of the great aliens Amos the euphology,

1161
01:36:40.640 --> 01:36:44.159
but be very careful what I have
said before with everything that are false

1162
01:36:44.239 --> 01:36:48.920
messiahs and we are already coming to
the end of this podcast and I will

1163
01:36:49.279 --> 01:36:54.000
give you passage for each of you
to give your conclusion and your closure.

1164
01:36:54.880 --> 01:37:00.880
First Mr Edwin Olaya. Well,
Juan Gel, thank you very much.

1165
01:37:02.840 --> 01:37:05.600
I would like to mention it here
and hope to do so in two minutes.

1166
01:37:08.399 --> 01:37:14.600
I had to do some kind of
consulting to a mother who was here

1167
01:37:15.039 --> 01:37:17.960
in Colombia, here in Bogotá,
who was very worried about what was going

1168
01:37:18.079 --> 01:37:23.319
on with her daughter, because she
ended up in a sect, because here

1169
01:37:23.399 --> 01:37:29.319
in Colombia, there are also sects
and there are many and some are surrounded

1170
01:37:29.640 --> 01:37:33.920
by mysteries and interesting chévere, but
others are much more destructive, because they

1171
01:37:33.960 --> 01:37:39.600
are really groups of coercive persuasion.
And this woman I' ve been talking

1172
01:37:39.640 --> 01:37:42.520
to for over ten years. I
was wondering, but why, my daughter,

1173
01:37:44.439 --> 01:37:48.960
because she, and even though it' s true, she had a

1174
01:37:49.000 --> 01:37:55.199
hard time understanding it. What I
would like to share with all listeners is

1175
01:37:55.279 --> 01:37:59.760
as follows. Entering a group of
these has to do with individual vulnerabilities.

1176
01:38:01.640 --> 01:38:09.000
Therefore, anyone is susceptible, any
of us is susceptible to fall into a

1177
01:38:09.079 --> 01:38:15.239
sect. Here we cannot arrive with
a kind of pseudo moral and intellectual superiority.

1178
01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:19.279
Saying I haven' t studied enough
for or I don' t have

1179
01:38:19.279 --> 01:38:23.760
enough resources. Not why, because
sects, or rather these groups are always

1180
01:38:23.840 --> 01:38:30.439
going to shoot very specific targets.
And that and that and by that I

1181
01:38:30.520 --> 01:38:38.000
mean people who are going through personal
crises, affective labor, who are going

1182
01:38:38.039 --> 01:38:43.399
through adolescence and have a lot of
doubts about their future, who even have

1183
01:38:43.479 --> 01:38:48.319
problems relating to others, who even
have little documented concerns, spiritual concerns,

1184
01:38:49.159 --> 01:38:55.640
undocumented scientists, who have not been
able to be prosecuted in an adequate way.

1185
01:38:56.399 --> 01:39:02.920
Also people with very marked features of
naivety, idealism, altruism. In

1186
01:39:03.039 --> 01:39:09.680
other cases they may be people with
dependent personality trait or who are even very

1187
01:39:09.800 --> 01:39:16.279
socially isolated. So what this means
is that this is not about unwary people

1188
01:39:16.479 --> 01:39:23.920
or people in monotony or superficial people, but what these groups really do is

1189
01:39:24.039 --> 01:39:28.720
look for the best buyers to sell
their product to you and, consequently,

1190
01:39:28.920 --> 01:39:34.680
any of us are the target buyer
of any of these groups, because that

1191
01:39:35.199 --> 01:39:41.960
' s when the final reflection comes. We need to be aware of what

1192
01:39:42.079 --> 01:39:46.119
these gaps are, what those gaps
are, what are those questions that move

1193
01:39:46.279 --> 01:39:54.920
us that affect us in order to
recognize eventually where someone is the leader of

1194
01:39:55.079 --> 01:40:00.920
a sect or a couple in a
toxic relationship, it can manipulate us to

1195
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:04.199
produce a lot of damage. Friend, therefore, thank you so much for

1196
01:40:04.319 --> 01:40:09.680
your reflection Listen and your social networks
your YouTube channel so that people can follow

1197
01:40:09.720 --> 01:40:13.000
you Juan Jesús. Thank you all
so much. A pleasure to share with

1198
01:40:13.119 --> 01:40:17.079
you and it will be a pleasure
to do and continue sharing if you accompany

1199
01:40:17.439 --> 01:40:24.079
me on Instagram and olaya m and
more special on YouTube. Canal bar criminological

1200
01:40:24.680 --> 01:40:30.239
contents of this kind pure reality,
zero fiction from the knowledge of cases,

1201
01:40:30.720 --> 01:40:34.720
criminals and science. Welcome, everyone. Thank you so much to my crazy

1202
01:40:34.840 --> 01:40:40.439
friend, Camilo Manjarres, your conclusion
of your closure and yes, Juan that

1203
01:40:40.520 --> 01:40:42.600
good of the good one. First
of all, Thank you for the invitation,

1204
01:40:43.319 --> 01:40:46.960
Thanks to Juange Alejo, I came
to Cado listening for allowing me to

1205
01:40:47.159 --> 01:40:50.399
be here and good from the social
sciences and history. I think this can

1206
01:40:50.520 --> 01:40:57.319
be analyzed in detail, because we
find that these sects, these groups,

1207
01:40:58.960 --> 01:41:03.039
have very interesting characteristics that are analyzed
in the social sciences, such as symbolic

1208
01:41:03.039 --> 01:41:08.359
violence. In symbolic violence, discourse
analysis and so on. So I think

1209
01:41:08.439 --> 01:41:13.760
it' s a pretty interesting topic
and that we could later why not talk

1210
01:41:13.840 --> 01:41:15.920
about sects in Colombia It' ll
be a pretty interesting topic. And again,

1211
01:41:16.199 --> 01:41:19.439
thank you for the invitation. I
think it' s great, thanks

1212
01:41:19.439 --> 01:41:23.279
to you, your social networks,
your YouTube channel. Camilo of course yes,

1213
01:41:23.399 --> 01:41:27.239
Juan, you can follow me both
on Instagram and YouTube, like mysterio

1214
01:41:27.359 --> 01:41:30.279
or when or my story or the
dark floor. I handle the whole mystery

1215
01:41:30.359 --> 01:41:34.079
theme. And again, thank you
for the invitation. Thank you very much,

1216
01:41:34.279 --> 01:41:38.119
my friend, Alejandro Berna. Your
conclusion of your closure very quickly,

1217
01:41:38.239 --> 01:41:43.880
John ge a review through manipulation sadly, do not let yourselves be isolated from

1218
01:41:43.960 --> 01:41:47.680
anyone, do not let much sense
be manipulated as much critical thinking. I

1219
01:41:47.680 --> 01:41:51.439
think it is the great reflection of
this program and you can follow me on

1220
01:41:51.439 --> 01:41:56.039
social networks, on Twitter, Instagram
and tiktok in arroba ale bernol presco en

1221
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les and if you like my work, I invite you to subscribe to my

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YouTube channel. Mandragura mysteries Mandragura mysteries
on YouTube. You can say that this

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is one of the programs that I
have liked for a long time because of

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that reflection that we have made about
the society in which we live and for

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the society that surrounds us fundamental that
critical thinking. Read document and change your

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mind, which is wonderful to change
your mind. It' s all right,

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don' t believe in the chosen
ones. We are all chosen and

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never, never forget that we live
in a magical world, because it is

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full of mystery