Sectas asesinas

0:07 Everyone as you are. My name is Juan Jesús Vallejos and journalist, desk, director of the Mystery Night program on Caracol Radio, taking a greeting from Santo Domingo de la calzada at the foot of the Camino de Santiago in Spain, Pilgrim Route. It' s funny how some people have the ability to convince and hypnotize hundreds, even thousands of people to follow him in his delusions, creating sects that tell us about the end of the world and the apocalypse. Case sounded in history. For example, in the late seventies of the last century, Reverend Jin Jones brought more than a thousand people to French Guiana who ended up with their lives being poisoned or also senate worldwide. For example, the story of David Corres, the leader of the Davidians who in Waco, Texas faced the very event you see, causing countless victims. How they are able to brainwash these people, for if you want to know, do not miss the last night podcast of mystery in snail radio sects, murderers, charlatans, fakes, messiahs, merchants, people who stay their own paranoia, others who say they will open the doors of heaven to us. You'

1:38 d think it' s possible, maybe there are the chosen ones. I will not tell those who are Muslims, Christians or Buddhists that Jesus Christ, Buddha or Muhammad were chosen. I can' t say that, but I do have to say that I' m very afraid when they appear elected in the middle of the twentieth or twentieth century, because what history tells us is that really many of these elect have dragged hundreds or thousands of people into their madness. And they have dragged hundreds or thousands of people into their madness, not only in their delirium of spirituality, but have dragged them even to death.

2:23 And so it has happened with different groups, with different sects, like, for example, Heavens Gates, like, for example, the Manson family, as it is for example, were David Corege' s Daddians and many others. And it is a subject that makes us reflect on the society in which we live, because today when they were looking at me notes and different data of all this and I saw history of some sects, for example Heavens Gate, which became famous in the year ninety- seven because several of its members took their lives to pass to the next level where the aliens were. And I, while I was reading this, the history of this group was saying good to see We live right now in a world in which a good percentage of the population of the planet has gotten into this terraplanism, the earth is flat and the images there are of the earth and so on. It ' s a big conspiracy where the thousands of NASA employees, plus the non - American, Russian or Japanese satellites, and I don' t know how many countries they all lie to us and say and think and reflect here and say, my mother, if one of these that begins with terraplanism then gives it for being messiahs. This isn' t gonna end well. But it is also, now, with the emergence of this new social network, which is making anger called Tiktok. I don' t think I put it,

3:55 because the amount of stupidity I hear just rip it off, because many of these merchants and prophets and false messiahs use one thing that bothers me a lot, which is mystery issues. They use extraterrestrials or use parapsychology, or they use certain conspiracies and they use certain things to start selling us a great obvious truth that only they know and this has a lot more strength than we imagine, because these people, with that kind of message, what they do is pull many people out of monotony and lead them to understand in quotation marks.

4:44 I say this the real reality. And there are a lot of characters now that have gone viral on Tiktok, not on other social networks. I repeat about Tiktok, saying, for example, that they have been members of secret services and that they really know that the land is flat because the Illuminatis have hired them to go by helicopter or were spies of the Illuminatis in different countries, which is a sovereign stupidity. As I am saying, this is believed not by thousands, nor by hundreds of thousands, nor by me. Don ' t ask me why, but it' s true. What I believe from my nil opinion, here we have a psychologist who is going to give us his now is because that kind of message gets us out of monotony and makes us participate in a reality to which only a few chosen come and be different, be special and be there I think it is something that attracts the human being. There is no other way to understand this paranoia that we can all be victims of, absolutely all of us. Because, for example, this afternoon, as I was going over notes here at home, I remembered, I don' t know if many of you know him or not, of a very nefarious character in history who was called Charles Manso, creator of a sect called The Family, a very small sect that became tremendously famous from

6:17 the 9th of August of a thousand nine hundred and sixty- nine, day when disciples of this sect that created Charle Manson, I repeat, the family murdered Sharon Tate, a very famous Hollywood actress and was also pregnant. She was stabbed several times. They also murdered that afternoon, in a mansion in Hollywood, four other people, writing on the walls of that mansion the words pinkpork pink pigs, accusing an elite of people of being running the world and in Chart Manson' s delusion, besides that he was a person who had a history of kizophrenia and paranoid behavior to think that the Apocalypse was near as it was going to start an ethnic war between blacks and whites in the United States, which would be the beginning of the end of the days, for this gentleman convinced many people, many of them women, and so far I say well, for he was a Chalao and a madman who basically had some appeal to a group of people who were at the time involved in the hippie movement and that I don' t know what they smoked themselves or that they took every day in a rush. But it is that Charle Manson, until he died a few years ago, was the prisoner of the planet of the world, who received more letters on his Cell, letters of admiration. You

7:50 understand the society in which we live. I assure you that I do not prefer to keep talking about aliens and other things, because, as soon as I get social and human, I recognize that one makes me a little crazy And, second, I don' t know if what I feel is sadness or desire to run away from this planet. My name is Juan Jesús Vallejo. What you want to follow me on social networks, on my twitter is Arroba Juange Vallejo, Juan j Vallejo, on Instagram, on Facebook Juan Jesús Vallejo. And this is another mystery night show. And here what we do is mystery journalism. We oppose the facts on the table and you decide what is behind and what is not. And ask what do you think of this introduction I' ve made to you. Charles Manson, who instigated other people to be murderers because the apocalypse came. He was the prisoner in the world who received the most letters on his cell. You know I' m making an author' s trip the second half of September this year, two thousand twenty- four. Once again we will travel to Egypt, to enjoy the magic of the mystery of the pyramids and to sail in unforgettable days for the fabulous Nile. You have all the information on that trip to Egypt, I repeat, second fortnight of the month of September of the year two thousand twenty

9:22 - four. You have all the information on the website. Three trips Juan Jesús Vallejo com I repeat, Three trips Juan Jesús Vallejo com And we start now without further delay. Alejandro Bernal, partner friend, how are you? All right, John I have greeted for you, also for our exceptional guests of this program, Evinolaya and Camilo Manjarres and, of course, for all listeners here, as always, sharing with the great family of mystery, quite interesting themes and on this occasion, John g a topic that we had been asked enough by social networks, to talk about sects, and I think it is important to address it not only with a professional like Evinci, also from history and when you spoke about Charles Manson, Juan Ge and that strange statistic of being one of the convicts who received the most letters in the world.

10:11 I think that speaks quite a bit of a society like the one we have, not just the American one, but in the West. I would venture to say that worldwide, so juange that a few months ago I am talking about less than six months ago, in Africa there was another of these destructive mushrooms, which provoked a massive suicide of more than 300 people. Again, one of these leaders with apocalyptic messages, that is, what we are going to do is a historical review, but of facts that are current. And I would venture to say that a messianic dynamic, unfortunately, which continues to present itself to this day and which will very certainly continue to be presented, unfortunately, in the future. And if you like my work, I invite you to subscribe to my YouTube channel. Mandragora mysteries Mandragora mysteries on YouTube.

11:01 I think this is something that has happened throughout history and now I think it just has a little bit different nuances on social networks or because if you rush me, the level of paranoia is even higher, because I understand that in the middle ages, where there was a tremendous incultura and so on, there is a chalao, a messiah or something and people follow him and end up taking his life. But they start in the 21st century where we say that it is easy to access information and to have a minimum of culture and so that this continues to happen as if nothing happened. And besides, the more fantastic the madness, the better, the more adept it has. This is one thing that I then ask Edwing Olaya because I don' t understand it, Camilo Manjarrés, friend that there is how one is, like you very well, friend, Camilo, what do you think of this that we are saying. Alejandro and I will see this madness. But you, you think you were younger. I' m very bald and it' s called hair a long time ago, but you, you' re young. Among the young people follow many people of Tiktok and they also continue to believe that the flat earth and that there is a lord who has a quantum machine that heals your soul, because of this it is sold in Tiktok. It' s just that I' m grieving you, Juange, but it' s very curious. Not because, from the historical part and from the part of the social sciences, I am Professor Te, I can say that these accounts, these events that have been seen can be explained easily or well, in quotation marks, easily with very curious terms, such as symbolic violence. John is that symbolic violence is a term that a French sciozologist with an averted surname mentions

12:35 that it is that violence that does not exert a physical force, but is simply the imposition of power in an authoritarian way. We find that yes, obviously, in these cases that we are going to report, in some cases if there was physical violence, what most have in common is that they were people who were manipulated psychologically through that symbolic violence, through those acts that were perhaps committed in a manner of authoritarian imposition and which, unfortunately, were victims of these events. Well, that' s very good thinking. I think one thing called brainwashing techniques is fundamental. He' s not going to talk about this Eddin Olaya. And the truth is that all this that has come up over the last few months, especially of there has been a boom in tiktok or a series of characters that I feel sorry for because they are also Spanish and that is what I find tremendously sad and pathetic. Well, they ' re just some charlatans, but what they do is they then give you quantum therapy that I don' t know you give her quantum therapy. I don' t think that exists. For starters, you get quantum therapy to get out of the matrix. I get out of the matrix by taking two beers and I get a lot cheaper and if it' s three beers plus some of the matrix. But either way, it' s crazy that I can' t understand it, but maybe he does, because he' s a psychology genius. It' s Mrs Edwin Olayag. And I think before we start, we' ve left you in the air, like, fourteen

14:05 questions, or which one to start with, son and friends, how are you? Here. Thank you so much for the invitation. A greeting to You, to Camilo, to Alejandro and, of course, to all those who are listening to us deferred. As always, it is a pleasure to share with you, particularly in this Saturday Sunday night transition. We hope, I think it is an expectation of this team that accompanies you all not to leave them too questioned or rather leave them very questioned, because that is the point of what you mentioned at the time. Juange. We are in a time of excess information. But, as great philosophers of the 20th and 21st century already say, the problem is not information. The problem is the absence of critical thinking. And here I think this is a super- key point for what we' re going to deal with tonight, which are these groups.

15:05 I am, I' m going to subtract a little bit and in a moment, if you' ll allow me, explain why. But I am going to subtract myself from the use of the word sect, because really sect speaks to us of a religious ideology, mainly in fact, it is of etymology, that is, the word sect has that connotation and that makes us think and leads us to a stereotype, and that is that all sects are religious in nature and, on the other hand, it blurs the very complex problem behind it. But, for a change, I' m going everywhere. Then we either go to Jesus with the first things. So I think the problem at this point is the excess of information. Besides that a lot of you have said it, that junk information, it' s frivolous information, it' s superficial information, that information that it has at all invites reflection and we' re falling into a tenacious obscurantism Prof Camilo in which we don' t even feel like thinking. On that level of superficiality, then it' s like a black hole that we' re all falling into.

16:18 I acknowledge myself guilty of not spending so many hours. Yes, because in some way I control the stimulus, but I do see many minutes watching silly rials of things that are not going to give me anything in life and that, in theory, I am getting more into the matrix. And I think that' s also leading us to a phenomenon for me as a psychologist, as a criminologist and even from my spiritual beliefs a super critical topic that is the deification of evil. I mean, a long time ago evil was the antithesis of good, that is, that typical fight. We saw it for a long time in different scenarios, comics, to say one as atypical.

17:07 But today even bad people are good, that is, that moral ethical structure. If you want some to associate with religion. And it' s not like that. Yeah, that dividing line isn' t that clear anymore. And that then makes us fall into issues like that in some it can be a paraphilia. It' s recognized. But that attraction to those sordid dark characters you look at are characters of zero admiration and in this case you mentioned, like Charles Manson, but he' s not the only one. John Wayne Gase sent her women' s garments, bought her paintings. Jeffrey Damer was also getting letters. And so what to say to Richard Ramirez, the night Stocker, also a serious killer who even married in prison, that is, these characters. Let' s say a little bit about that natural attraction of the human being, that curiosity towards evil attracts attention. But at this level of frivolity, I think we are falling, I repeat, into a black hole from which, physicists say, it is impossible to get out, because not even the light comes out. It' s not that that ' s the point. I believe everything in the key to one thing, the absence of critical thinking. And besides, I think, even if you ' re getting a little bit out of the script for a change, that

18:40 social media is making us more assholes. I mean, I already and I ' m Twitter, or I used to be Twitter, or I already tweet already. I don' t think of anything on Twitter except some bullshit, because it' s all a fight and a problem. And then it' s funny because you put it on Twitter and now you' re the ones who think that politicians are gods, that' s one from right to left from center. They' re gods, they' re not human, they ' re not wrong, I mean, it' s an absence of brutal critical thinking. I' m from the left, if I' m progressive, and then I have a leader who' s an ammon, I don ' t care because I' m from the left, if I' m progressive, I' m from the right, if I' m a person who likes order, and I don' t know how much I have a leader who' s a cafra who can' t even imagine you, it doesn' t matter because I' m from the right, if I' m from the right to the right. I believe that democracy makes people who change their votes and I think they are smart. If this guy isn' t a good manager change, I don' t care what I do, be progressive, right, center, top, bottom, that is, if this guy is useless, because I take the vote from him okay and there ' s already chao. But now it' s an absence of critical thinking, what you' ve said absurd, but absurd, that is, and I think another important factor, because I totally agree with you and nevin for me the hyperi information, that is, people stuff themselves with such a lot of data, of videos, of postures, of themes that basically, in the middle of all that many times and I say because it' s happened

20:11 to me on some occasions it' s hard to discern that there' s in the middle of all that data, of videos, of postures, it ' s very complicated. I mean, imagine a person who has access to a device of those and any social network will listen to any kind of ideas, any kind of postulates and something also very interesting that I think would be worth analyzing in this, since we have Edwin and of course Camilo' s position. From the point of view of history, I think it' s the gregarious animals, we' re group animals. We like to feel content, we like to feel that we are part of and many times what social networks do is to create such groups, groups like the terraplanists, groups like those who hate the terraplanists or the right left. So I think that, apart from that hyperro of information Juan, that tendency aglutivernus to feel part of us, to be part of a tribe or to be a group or to be part of a group that thinks about such a thing. And I think many times that' s what but on social media and that' s what I' ve heard. Psychologist, I' d like Edwing' s opinion and also Camilo, if you want to talk that the problem with social media is that you get into a group and already think that everyone has to think just like that group. And if you' re not far from reality and the right path, then the stance gets more and more radical by milk, because I' ve been dedicating to mystery journalism for almost thirty years and when I see the terraplanist movement, I don' t hate them. I mean,

21:44 there' s a time when, I mean, honestly gives me a little bit. It' s unfortunate, I mean, but it' s serious that a guy comes out in Tiktok saying that the earth is flat that beyond the ice wall of ros of Antarctica, what we find is forgiveness that I laugh worth it. We find a continent, an island where the Nazis who escaped in World War II live, another is Atlantis, Le Muria and then the other. You don' t even remember me as a guru Sorry, the asgar You remember we wouldn' t die of laughter. The other day, speaking of this, okay, I gave you a video and I say you' re going to die of the new, the new Swabia that, according to those conspiracy theories, would be the so that I would have created the Nazis beyond Antarctica to build a fourth Rike. And the worst thing is that he sustains it and says it quietly. Yes, and that the moon I see that camilo is there, that it speaks camilo if it is that raises his hand here really vina Forgive me is pulling out the flags so that the people hold the hand of king that we laugh, Alexander and I who sent him the video, and that the plasma moon and it is an artificial plan, and that the stars are energetic points and the Moon reflects the continents that are on earth. Yeah, it' s a reflection of the moon' s stains. In the spots of the Moon are the continents beyond the Ice Wall. I mean, this for a science novel. Fiction is great, I mean, it' s even brilliant. No. But I mean, it' s like from and then clear those characters that tell you

23:14 in the story and then tell you that they have a quantum machine in which you can transcend in the matrix to, because that' s when we' re not here and that' s what you' re going to go to another planet. I mean, I don' t have a word for Camila Mancarres. Yes, John and indeed, as Alejo commented, unfortunately, not us, as such or young or good, or the population in general is lacking that critical thought and we move on to a collective thought. Or John and I know that soon, at that time the listeners who were knowing what collective thinking is. And there is a French sociologist of Urken' s Surname, who mentions that collective thinking Juange Alejo and Edvin are those beliefs values and norms of a particular society and that it is influenced by the behavior of these same beliefs. That is, as a society is influenced by perhaps some belief, some norm. And since we are talking about social networks, because this same community, these members who are part of that community, believe everything they are seeing on these social networks, lack that critical thinking and automatically believe that that is the reality. And they are lacking in this, so we make a collective thought, as Durquen mentions it, that is, it is rather regrettable not to lack critical thinking and to trap ourselves in that collective thought.

24:41 If a collective thought that can be led by a leader who is an authentic nut, but who has a good loquacity, and then that makes people disembedded with their stories. A minute is missing, but the opinion of the psychologist of Eduolaya what you think stands out has said the career of collective thought and in the next block already if we start with the sect that did these insanities specifically, yes promised or promised I do not want. I want to pick up what Alejandro says about that group feeling, but it' s really one. It' s a false group feeling. Yeah, actually, the most paradoxical thing is that I can join x group. Yes, that we clarify now when we talk about these groups by one ideology and so on. However, I am not that in psychology, as we are using terms is called disindividuation, that is, the individual ceases to be one to become the group.

25:45 There is no more individuality. So, the paradox here is that by joining a group, either a sect or another pseudo- scientific group like the one you' re mentioning. I see you very energetic on the subject of tera planismo guaje, but could it also be the moringa in Pandemia or the Bible? The Bible, or the hair of the Bible, and so on, before and after. Paradoxically, the individual ceases to be the individual. And that brings us to the same point I raised at the beginning. There is no recognized one, there are identity problems, and in the face of this lack of identity, we may find one of the reasons why we do not sit down and reflect on what we hear, what we read. And we don' t even care anymore, because in criticizing him, then the others reject me. And there' s the phenomenon of identity. And to understand who I am versus, who the others are and why I associate myself with that reflection of sdwin Hello yaut And after this first block of introduction to this collective madness, that is already right with terraplanism. I' m not, but terraplanism, at first it was funny. The truth is good and he gave me a very good documentary is on Netflix which is called s convincing.

27:10 Yes, it' s true, I mean, at first I was very funny and I said well, that' s it. Well, there are characters that have started to become known with this and they' re like a bunch of people there that have more and more thousands of followers. And but when I started reading about terraplanism because as a sociological phenomenon, it seemed to me a wonderful thing, it turns out that those who created all this in the United States started selling trip that took you to Antarctica so that you had the ros ice mule and they charged you twenty thousand dollars, that is, they were crazy, but maybe not so much. And now these characters have emerged, since they are version two zero you don' t need to go to me to show you Rosa' s mule in the Antarctic that costs the trip fifteen thousand dollars. I do a quantum healing session so that you can get out of the matrix and actually see that the earth is flat and that we are dominated by the Illuminatic that subtracts the world every xglo that has also forgotten the rc that that is very good also the rectification that turns out that our history now began at the end of the 19th century. Before this lie, including archaeological evidence are there laid by the illuminatis. So, as the Holy God means, the world has lost its ball, we started getting into this kind of grouping and with this kind of social paranoia. Alejandro Bernal is a group. A man named Reverend Jim Jones, who in Guyana caused

28:42 many people to die, created a sect called the People' s Temple. On what basis was the temple of the people, who is this character Jin Jones, who made this story n nea fasta in humanity. Ange, a figure of nine hundred and thirteen people died after a collective suicide. Adept even sect of the temple of the disciples, it was called completely the temple of the people of Christ' s disciples. He had such a great name. By the way, since we' re talking about this, Juange, which was a religious movement that emerged in the United States in a thousand nine hundred and fifty- five, that is, from the middle of the last century and the great leader and protagonist of this story is, as you rightly said, James Warren Jones, better known as Jim Jones for the Parisians laugh around and Jim Jones was a character that really seems to me to have a rather interesting story to analyze. Within the context and topic that we are analyzing in this program, which are these kind of sectarian party groups, it turns out juanje that Jim Jones was a man who was born into a middle- class family in nineteen hundred and thirty- one in Indiana and had two particularities.

30:04 On the one hand, his father was a member of the Kukux Clan, an active member of almost nothing, and his mother was a woman who by the time, that is, Jim Jones was born in a thousand thirty- one almost a century ago, was a woman who did not correspond to the aesthetic canon or behavior of the woman of that time of the twentieth century. She was a woman who, according to Jim Jones' biographers, wore pants, smoked a lot, said it was the reincarnation of a man who had lived in the civil war, that is, in this sancocho mental grew up Jim Jones, that is, father of the Cucus clan mom who smoked this one as being the reincarnation of an exact man, who was an incarnation of war, that is to say already. There we go well then in the middle of this cocktail, this is a mental car and this particular family in which Jim Jones grew up, for a man who always noticed, especially by the influence of his mother, that had to do a spiritual search. So it is said that at almost ten years old, Jim Jones began to investigate the Bible, about Protestantism, about this current in the United States. So almost since he was twelve years old he began to be like protomitins, so to speak, to gather children of his age and to tell him these studies that he had done of course, without much knowledge at the time, a man who, after finishing his university career, Juan Ge knows who would be

31:37 his wife, a woman who was a nurse and joins the Methodist church. And this detail is important within the life of Jim Jones, because in this Methodist church, of which he was a part, he was formed as a pastor, that is, he was instructed to have in this case the basic knowledge, for, to carry out this work and at this point Juange, Jim Jones forms, together with his wife, his sentimental companion, something that was known as the rainbow family Iris. This family member Coiris was the pioneer group to this village temple. It turns out that this Rainbow family, basically Juan g Edwin, Camilo and listeners, was a group where Jim Jones tried to adopt children of various races, to bring them together, to have them as a group, to give them a religious formation, to give them a better chance of life, at least so Jim Jones saw at that time.

32:39 It turns out that, to the extent that Jim Jones and his wife were recruiting children and other people, the group grew and reformed and later became what became known as the village temple and in the midst of this began to emerge a series of particular events. Jim Jones, according to his close wounds, claimed to be the reincarnation of Lenin, Jesus Christ and Buddha. It must be remembered that Lenin forgives, that imagine that Christo and Buddha I understand. But Lening was crazy, because Jenny Jones hated religion. He was a communist, but Jim Jones was at the bottom of the left. He was very communist, despite having all this training, that sar car mental. And one must also consider something Juan Gel on the side of his maternal influence, his mother believed it was the reincarnation of a civil war soldier, as it was someone who had this kind of belief. Then, Jim Jones began to grow his group began to earn a good amount of money, a mini fortune in fact, he came to comment that he got to rub shoulders with such important personalities from the United States as Rosallin Carter, the wife of former President Jimmy Carter, or a first lady from the United States. If this guy didn ' t rub shoulders with anyone. And a number of very interesting things that made this people' s tempo stand out in the United States remember was founded on one thousand nine hundred and fifty- five and John who, unlike other

34:09 religious groups in the United States, Jim Jones did receive people of color and this made him stand out from other religious leaders of the time. For Jim Jones, or at least what he postulated within the people' s tempo group is that there should be no racial differences and, of course, people of color also joined this movement. In fact, it is said that there was a relatively close relationship between Jim Jones and the black panthers. To contextualize our listeners, the Black Panthers, a militant ideological movement that emerged in the United States in the middle of the last century to claim the rights of Black people.

34:54 It' s just that of course I want to put on a little bit of context for forgiveness. It is necessary to define the people who at that time, in the United States was still segregation exactly the black could not go to schools of the white or whether to get on a bus use. Indeed, either he had specific places on a bus and other black or white sites. There was even a bathroom for the blacks, bathrooms for the white. Then, of course, in that sense, the message of a pastor like Jim Jones, if he was a breaker, if it was something new, exactly Juan Gel being able to welcome these people openly and especially a guy who rubbed shoulders with personalities as important as a first lady. It turns out that Jim Jones, according to his biographers, received a message repeatedly in the mid- 1970s, from a more than latent possibility of a nuclear holocaust.

35:52 And this is also important to contextualize. Juanje in the 1970s, full cold war, two political, economic and military blocs, the United States, the Soviet Union, a struggle for military power, a space race in Ciernes and, above all, a latent threat that I believe that the people we have more than forty juan that we must remember here, we lived in the heat of someone pressing a red button, whether Soviet or American, and I think this was a shadow in which we live many of those who have a certain age purpose very well represented by Gabo in the Cataclysm of Damocles. So, when Jim Jones got this message, he realized that he had to take his group to Brazil, that is, it was like a decision he made.

36:39 I have to go to Brazil, take my group, my followers, this part of the world here, to South America. But before he finally eradicated himself in Brazil, he decided to make a journey to Guyana. He realized that it was a place as an intermediate transition before reaching his final destination, the place he wanted to give to his group, to his sect. It turns out a juanje Ken Guyana comments that this man initially had a series of problems, so to speak, with local authorities, but like Jim Jones, he had very good influences and had money. Basically, what he did was bribe the local authorities to hear you stay quiet, leave me alone, I do my things here. Don' t mess with me and I' m not messing with you. And other than that, I gave them money.

37:25 And in the midst of this context, Jim Jones had also won a series of enemies from people who did not see this movement with good eyes, especially because they had either friends or relatives who had left their lives in the United States to go to such an exotic destination as Guyana. And this is where one of the great counterdictors appears from the realm of Jim Jones' policy. Leo Ja Ryan, a man who was an American congressman and said ok Yo, the truth is this story they' re going to go to Brazil. I have to go check it out. It turns out Leo Ryan traveled to Georgetown, there to Guyana Juange, in the company of journalists. Moreover, when he arrived in the area, he met with some people who are part of Jim Jones' group, who really seemed to be sorry to be part of the activities that were carried out there according to Leo Ryan and some of the people who were with him, These people said they felt tired of that continuous brainwashing, that they had within the group, that they had seen attitudes and activities within themselves, that they had not liked, activities within which they were dealing drugs, weapons, that is, that they did not feel comfortable.

38:49 And it turns out that in this visit to Juange that Leo Ryan made on 14 November a thousand nine hundred and seventy- eight, when Jim Jones found out about it and realized that Leo Ryan not only arrived with these journalists, but took away fourteen of his members. Jim Jones took it very personally. It felt like an affront. He decided to order some of his followers to follow Leo Ryan and his entourage to the airport there in Guyana, the airport of Puerto Kautuma and Juangel. Basically, his followers shot this U S congressman, Leo Ryan when they went, Juange shot him, his companions, and the fourteen deserters, because that' s how he measured them. Jim Jones, deserters from his sect, finished them off. And then, at that moment, for me it is the great turning point of this story.

39:45 Jim Jones felt somewhat cornered to see his followers had finished a congressman from the United States. Whether it' s Eve or not, I knew this wasn ' t going to come out for free. So this guy says the following and Brocamillas gathers his group and says we' ve got everything we wanted in this world, we' ve had a good life and we' ve been loved. Let' s get this over with. Let us end this agony and after saying that speech in front of this whole group, some women who were, so to speak, nurses who were part of this group Juange distributed Cyanuro mixed with grape juice and handed it to the people who are at that time in Guyana and, according to the initial balance, were nine hundred victims.

40:38 But the most recent Juang data reaches nine hundred and thirteen people who perished in this massive suicide in Guyana. With this sect, the temple of the town of Jim Jones, in the year nineteen hundred and seventy- eight, has counted it in a masterful manner. And how a team drags a lot of people into their paranoia suddenly looks cornered and then, then, begins to talk about the Apocalypse and such and all the story that you have to leave and convinces more than nine hundred people is duinoraya what you can say as a psychologist of a personality. I mean, it' s terrifying. No, I' m not talking about Jean' s personality yet. I want, if I may, to make two clarifications regarding what I have mentioned, because I had access to or knowledge of the investigation files, because this obviously had a federal investigation and those files are public, public consultation. First of all, juanje in front of what you say about John' s paranoia doesn' t apply. I mean, Jim Jones really left America because it was the easiest way to evade taxes and control people. Yes, I mean, the issue of nuclear risk and so forth was the idea that he sold out on some, but he really didn' t believe any of that, that is,

42:10 he also took on a role as a role. Yes, and that ' s what all the leaders of this group do, of these coercive persuasion groups, which they do. That is the most professional term, because it is also being mentioned that the underlying problem. Yeah, so Jones really does find out where to avoid the main focus of state surveillance, state supervision. Besides that he had already had, as Alejandro said, a previous group and in that group there had already been intervention by research agencies, because they said what is happening in that group. The other thing is that, more than this guy, why the visit of this congressman goes to Brazil has to do with that already several families who were in this center wanted to go because, because basically what they sold them in the brochure did not appear anywhere, that is, they bought on plans and none of that came out of the camps.

43:22 Quiet life is more field. You remember the Simpson episode that' s like a cult. The leader is good, the exact leader, I don ' t remember. The song is inspired by this in Jones' case, because they were offered, rather, a perfect life. In addition, however, events began to occur, which is very repeated, such as incidents of abuse, abuse, abuse, use of less, abuse of minors and also of women. Yeah,' cause Jones didn' t drive everything alone and watch that this data is critical. He had his close group all good leader of this coercive persuasion group. He' s gonna have a trust group, just like you have away, for example, then what happens. These individuals were abusing their role and several families said they ran away. This is getting ugly. We want to leave when they told Jones, we' re leaving, he told them perfect ready. But the first attempt they made when they went to the airport, well to say airport, that is to say a lot to the runway to pick it up, there were armed men who prevented them from arriving. This information. They sent her to her relatives, to the United States, and some of them had ties to Congress. And that ' s when this man that Alexander already spoke very well to us, saying what the sheath is already and indeed, that' s when he comes to make the visit. The congressman. They allow him to visit all over the world, but family members begin to pass on small pieces of paper and signal

44:58 us out of here. Come on, get us out of here. And that' s when they go hiding. And as Alejandro put it very well Jones sends his people back and for those who are very curious, that was recorded why. Because, as Alejandro said, the congressman was accompanied by teams of journalists and recording and the attack was recorded, that is, the time when these people were killed was recorded and, yes, I repeat, as Alejandro mentioned, that was the turning point for Jones to say something. But look I would like to make an observation here because sometimes and I say it because it happened to me for a long time, with many cases, one begins to repeat the information by inertia in order not to apply that critical thought with judgment. And it' s just that we tend to remember this episode of Jim Jones as a suicide I read it, and it really wasn' t like that. While it is true, hundreds of people decided to take their cyanide cotel from other people who were injected and forced to drink. People who were part of the circle close to Jim Jones. I mean, this wasn' t just a collective suicide, it was also a homicide and more.

46:30 In fact, if you search in networks, there is the video of one of the people who survived and saw when his family was forced to, his little girl and his wife, his little girl in her arms almost forced to drink that cocktail and he too alone that he did not drink enough. And it' s one of the few survivors, because there are survivors of collective homicide and collective suicide. Now, doing as rounding this story that Alejandro told us very well, I would like Juan Jesús and also being consistent with what we talked about in the first segment, to point out the following, a so- called sect that really, from the professional point of view and from the psychological and psychological and criminological approach, one calls as a group of coercive persuasion, a group of coercive manipulation or a group of undue influence.

47:31 It is worth the key to these groups and eye that we already mentioned, Alexander and I is not the belief piles With this and that has to do with what we started talking about a while ago, I mean, there may be people who believe that the earth is a course. If you want, that' s not the problem. The problem And what characterizes these types of groups are the techniques that they use to capture people, because they are techniques you mentioned a while ago, Juanje, are techniques of coercive persuasion that say that colloquially we call brainwashing. That' s what characterizes a sect. Then also for our listeners to land that there may be rare medium groups of washing in quantum therapy forgiveness. I think we' re making too much out of them. We' re doing the publicity big ruana forra during the world those rare quantum or non quantum flat earth or cubic earth or whatever you want and more that doesn' t make you a group of this kind, in a cross- quota sect. What turns them into sects is how a leader, along with a team, begins to use these brainwashing techniques to capture people, so that these people end up with such psychological affectations that develop dependence on the

49:01 leader and the wishes of the leader. There' s the key to how, what' s really going on with these groups and why they' re so hard. First to detect. And second, and this on the subject of promise, I' m going to look for the data of a person in Argentina who is an anti- sect expert because even he and his family I don' t know if Alejandro has reference to Salbún sabún, there I don' t remember. I' m him with him. If it' s not my memory Juan, we spoke in our old stage here in Caracola, at midnight. But yes, live the last name that he was the only one who came out, but the family is still in the exact Acceptances.

49:44 Yeah. Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? That' s what he' s an expert and he tells this kind of thing then and I ' m going to shut up so that the professor camel can enlighten us. But the truth is that I want to leave a small remark to all of you as well. Look at these groups not only have to do with religiosity. There are political groups, there are political sects piled with that. There are esoteric sects, there are ufological groups, even philosophical, tangential, piles with this. I am a commercial group that are accused of good sect forgiveness and more typical. Exactly yes, yes, they are tricho sulfological, commercial and imapura even football. Before going to the pause and to confirm the data that Don Pablo Salud expert in sects of Argentina gave us. Thanks to this much yes, but yes, I remember you made progress with it, yes, yes. And those who want to dig deeper, he has his page and, besides, he' s a leading researcher. In the face of this, I find it very good and the reflection that has done it not in the seems genius more important even than the belief that can make that the Great God is the chicharrón, which is what I think or that the Great God is the universal quantum therapy, is the technique of the band and the leader yes, indeed, butlue I will ask you about the technique of the brain bada, that right now there is no time and then I will give

51:15 it also to Camilo, that has not spoken in this block and we were already closing the story of Jiang jones and the sect, the temple of the people that Edwindolo gave us there are some notes that I did not know and I have remained in shock And the one that has not spoken that we have opinion is Mr Camilo Manjarrea. What do you think of all this madness, of the sect, of the temple, of the people. Yes, John who, as Edwin mentioned very well, is very interesting, since there are some accounts that are hardly mentioned about what Jian Jones did, and that is that he mentioned the passages of the Bible, along with texts by Carls Mars and what is more, he achieved to have up to six zero followers in this group. It' s a cult. And the other curious thing, Juan, is that the punishments that he implemented were quite disturbing to the young children he threw into a hole that they called the torture hole, and the teenagers were placed electric shocks on their genitals, that is, he was a pretty atrocious person what he made super cruel, that is, super- clever and it seems to be a lie what mental control he had of the people who were in the sect to see that your son was being electrically flushed into his genitals and not to go with forgiveness from his face, which is the least that this gentleman would deserve at that moment. Edwin Holaya, how can

52:46 you sum up that I don' t believe what these brain- ford techniques are like, because I think these people don' t even study psychology, but it' s just that it comes out naturally. Yes, in fact, they' re very intuitive. Some have reviewed some kind of material, but they are usually very intuitive because and if you allow me, we would like me to discuss in the last block what happens to people, what is really in the head of people who end up being caught by a sect. But for now, regarding what you tell me, of course, these coercive persuasion techniques are based on three main blocks The first environmental and physical control, The second has to do with emotional control and the third, which varies greatly from group to group, taking into account their beliefs, are the production of dissociative states ok that style, this apply initiating states. I' ll be right there. Then watch this for everyone I' ll put us in a position. Let' s think that someone is starting to offer us participation in a group and it is important that no group of coercive persuasion is going to show up as the coconut from the beginning. Why, as we said with John Jesus a moment ago, at rest, I will say so, at rest, at break, the leaders are, these group leaders, they are

54:17 very good sellers. Then they' re going to sell you the best in this group' s world. What happens when the person is already entering that group. So what starts to develop is parallel to all controls, but the main one is the environmental and physical control that has to do with isolating the person. That' s why Jones wanted to take all his people to another country. Why, Because isolating people limits coming thought, critical discourses or contradiction to what is there being your leader. Then my wife will no longer have the opportunity, but she is part of the group will no longer have the opportunity to discuss it with me. That sounds weird. How so go to the North Pole to see Ros' s ice pipe, Asgar' s big ice wall And I don' t know what else. And well, yeah, then we have to isolate him. Part of this isolation will also be nurtured by the control and manipulation of information. What kind of information do you think is going to get to the person who' s been caught. What the news reports say the first thing these groups do then is forbid you to see the media is the first thing and then what information will come to you the leader of life? And if the leader gets creative, how did he just mention camilo to us? If you start mixing texts by doing a literary

55:52 potpourri, because that' s what' s going to get to the person, then notice that I' m there controlling what' s going to get to this person' s brain. And, moreover, within that isolation of information, I am going to create new language structures, that is, I am going to insert terms, words, concepts that are part of my ideology. If you allow me the term and let' s say that this environmental control also extends to the economic, to the food. Even some have come to seek physical weakening from the suppression of food, because, as you well know, John Jesus and Alexander, from you who like those stories of the Second War and the whole subject and the CIA and the whole thing. When I weaken the body, my psychological resources to face my coping mechanisms, just as it goes to undism. It is that about what you say to Juange Camilo and the listeners, Paulen Tengue Mackenzie, a man who was the leader of this sect that I told them about in the introduction of the program, where there were more than 300 people killed less than half a year ago.

57:06 The method, or one of the methods he used to coerce his group' s followers, was to literally force them to fast, and in fact, many of them perished because this man literally told them to starve, that is, stop eating And many heeded John that, that is, imagine such a level of control to give him that suggestion, that is, to have a person and that person follow him, despite his biological needs. And what I ' m going to say now insult Juange Vallejo many of these sects. When they impose a veganism without having to take vitamin B twelve that I have a vegan cousin and her husband and his amis nothing happens. The girls are very healthy and I love that they have vegetarians. But if I impose a veganism on you without taking certain vitamin supplements and so on, your ability to reason will decrease. Science says it, I don' t say it. Yeah, sure, yeah, total clear. I mean, look at how this control is going very much to limit the ability of the subject and, obviously, to what to reduce it? So, there I am working as the leader of a group in which in retention mainly, but little by little, I am also playing with ready indoctrination. The second part of these coercive persuasion

58:42 techniques has to do with emotional control. So this is what does the most damage even. I mean, here' s where the psychological and psychiatric repercussions are, and that' s because from intimidation techniques, from threat, as we' ve already seen it with Jim Jones and we' re going to see it with another case, that the professor camel is going to present us at that moment through contempt, humiliation, rejection behaviors, public punishment, to foster, for example, feelings of guilt towards who you were before you were in this group and who you can become if you abandon us, because let ' s remember that here the person already has a feeling of increasing dependence.

59:30 So, feeling like he doesn' t have any family outside anymore, that my family are the ones who are here, what I' m going to do outside, and besides, how I might not appreciate what they' re offering me. Then it' s playing with guilt, also with public shame. But I also notice with this that principles of conductism my esteemed John Jesus Skin was to attack again begins to positively reinforce the leader with bombings of love. So, if someone does something right, then you' re the best member. You' re the repository of our legacy. Today double ration of rice for you because you did the best in the world. And, of course, there' s also punishment for what I told them about public exhibitions, exemplary expulsions that are often disguised expulsions, because the leader doesn' t want people to go out like that, they don' t flow with ideology.

1:00:31 It' s good for me because the scapegoat to punish by triangulating others is good and you were going to say no. And I' m going to say one thing that' s fundamental. When I, at some point in my life, wrote about this interviewing other psychologists or psychiatrists in Spain, imagine a person who has certain family problems and suddenly comes to a group where you see something fabulous about reality, that the rest of people don' t see, like the end of the world is coming, that aliens are your friends and also, they give you the affection that in your house you don ' t have total, you have a new family that is better than yours, because they give you affection. That is to say, it is indisputable and the latest technique is not the only one, but let us say that they are the main pillars of the famous brainwashing is the production of dissociative states.

1:01:27 And this works a lot, especially when beliefs are religious. Esoteric, pseudo- scientific, even ufological, because some substances cause trance states, dissociative states of hallucination that the person will perceive. As the master touched me and I saw and tasted the colors for saying something yes clear. So that' s forgiving mysticism. I move away from this experience by feeling the person as if it were real. That is to say, the production of dissociative states is super powerful and that is why I say that the person is already totally withheld here. Well, about what I was saying, and forgive me for interrupting you, I swear, but it just bit my tongue. The third, what Hassanisa was doing goes with the Hashashin who was going to tell her, she was going to say the same thing, I mean, Hasan was in the 11th century. He creates a sixth that are the Hashashings that the word killer comes from there or hachi eaters in what he did one day, because you would take to ingest up to the amount of hachis and suddenly you would wake up in one of the palace to see the Far dus in an out and then there, suddenly water fruit beautiful women, the famous virgin you ' re going to see in the hereafter, in Islam and then, of

1:02:59 course the type of saying again would sleep it or it would end there and it would tell him dies for me and died and of course it would shock from the Hashaching to his enemies that he had after killing you did not run away nothing like that he knew that helping to stay there because he had a promise made by his exact leader. Then, in Islam forgives are the first to be immolated in the name of God. Sure. Of course, of course, of course, so what I wanted to close this tip is that of course you can use psychoactive substances, but in some groups of coercive persuasion what has happened is that your target audience are people who have some kind of addiction. So what you take advantage of to violate your psyche is withdrawal syndromes.

1:03:47 For example, they are more bulges, clear, clear and in other groups, clearly not so sophisticated, then they appeal to the use of mantras, prayer, meditation, and those who are a little more elaborate begin to work with hypnosis to generate trance states or their hypnotic management and all this, I repeat, to generate a less end in identity. I repeat that this is key in the identity of the person so that it is no longer John Jesus, Alexander, Camilo or Edwin, but the followers of the leader has remembered me. In addition, for example, other sects use sex, the famous Christing, the ones who had Gregory, Jeffi, Bobich Rapodin, who were doing a ceremony where they were turning until they were in trance and then they told them the big transformation and then they all started throwing away. But as crazy as it is worth, states of stasis came through sex, which is not an associative state. Of course, and besides, the twists, the twisting dance, you who know a lot about the Middle East, I souffed him, exactly enough. It also has a spiritual and religious structure and the turns, it has been shown, have the capacity, the same capacity as a hallucinogenic substance. Then it' s all relative. Yes, of course, then that' s pretty much not missing. We' re not going into details. You never know. We have to take care of our

1:05:19 listeners. But when this starts to happen with someone close or with your own batteries, because that' s not going well, it' s not going well. And then it gets to a point where going backwards is very complicated, very, very complacent. It' s not very difficult. Look, if I may, I' d like to make Camilo' s entrance hatch. Camilo is going to share a super shocking, super interesting case with us, and I can tell you that today there are still people who are convinced and profess the ideology of David Corege Holy Day. There, yes, you left me a shock and then you extended it to me, Camila delicacies, who David Corrige was and what the davidians were. Yes, juange before entering this account. To complement what Even said. One very important thing that we must not overlook is that we must understand that this whole subject is not focused on a social class, but on different social classes, which I mean there is a Dutch lingwist or the Netherlands, as you would like to call it in the name of Van Dick, who has a text that is called the analysis of critical discourse, and he mentions how to understand that analysis that is through discourse in a critical way, whether it is an oral speech, written

1:06:53 speech, etcetera, etcetera. And this seems to me to be extremely important to mention, since, as we have said very well, I succeed in a sect and I read it quickly. I tell the listeners, to you by name Nexttion, which was founded by Kit Rainier. This subject, John gem and I want to share with all the listeners, was sentenced to one hundred and twenty years in prison just for practicing sexual slavery, psychological manipulation and all because, according to his words, he had created a company of name in Nextion, which was responsible for being like a motivational coshmo, so to speak. In nineteen hundred and ninety- eight he founded this company by the hand of marketing for and practiced seminars where people had to pay seven thousand five hundred dollars juange to grow and be better, be it entrepreneurs, better people, be like visionaries and winners. In two thousand fifteen, this subject founded two groups, a secret group called Group number two, and in this group juanje Alejo and Edwin. He manipulated women, physically burning them, i e, branding them as if they were prayers as if they were cows, raping them and forcing them to recruit other women for their will to rape them.

1:08:21 He also notes a very important fact that well he was sentenced to 120 years in prison and a rather important American actress, named Allison mac who worked on the Smosvil series. I don' t know if Alejo or Juan have ever seen her. Yes, this actress was one of the ones in charge of bringing innocent women to rape them, to be sex slaves. And this young actress was also sentenced to prison. But as she testified, she was only given three years in prison. That is, a group that was initially founded for personal development, ended up being a façade to make a destructive organization with practices of sexual slavery and psychological manipulation and a no minor data, already finishing quickly this company arrived in Mexico in the two thousand seven and eye members Listen very well, members of the family of former President Salinas, were present at the inauguration of this company and it is believed that the son of the former president, Carlos Salinas, had contacts with this subject, with kitt Reinier and also reached women for that BBC source sect. I' m not making this up. I don' t, but I think it' s great that I was over two thousand seven is three days ago here the key, plus, that' s what Edwin said, that this kind of group is worth.

1:09:53 I' ve been messing with the terraplanists and it seems to me like I' m fooling the terraplanists, but it' s not the paranoia that ' s going on now, because it reminds me at the beginning of a perfect teraplanist sect, but it doesn' t start to give you quantum therapy to start improving your life and get out of the womb. That already smells super ugly to me It' s worth the business. Juange the business and try all that business. But, for example, they fixed it is not that Camilo Manjarred has told that he does not stop. He screwed up the scripts, but he' s telling you what he wants. I' m going to tell you what' s mine, but it' s really good what Camilo van cart Es says. There was no need for a spiritual subject and I don' t know what. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1:10:39 I loved what Camilo said because I thought it was one thing. But tremendous, that is to say, be very careful with messiahs, whether in the field from the economic, in the business, in the football or in the omnis, in anything. Take care of the messiahs that I don' t trust much of them and now yes, although we have five minutes to finish this block then don' t worry, Camilo, because we can go on the next who was David Correge and the famous davidians that I think a lot of the people who heard us and were talking off the bus before the first time I saw there on television an incredible shooting around a sect and this was one thing that shocked me teen count. What happened and who this character was. Camilo, Yes, John, what good did we start from the fact that the Davidians were actually two religious sects that were the Davidians and the branch of the Davidians, that is, the branch? What happens these sects, which were totally different. One emerges in a thousand nine hundred and thirty known as the Davidians and its founder was a lord who already died by the name of Victor Poncel, and after his death arises this new stream called the branch of the Lavillanos. What happens to the group of traditional Davidians, as I mentioned. This is this founder who was born in Bulgaria on March 2, 1880. He therefore decided to emigrate to the United States and in this

1:12:10 place, in Texas, precisely in Waco, He therefore decides to create as this new religion. As I have mentioned, this subject dies and this branch of the Davidians arises. In this second branch that arises reaches a rather peculiar person named David Correge. This character Juange Edvin and Alejo was in charge of practically committing or so calling it a barbaric massacre, because Coris was born in Texas, but Eye, his real name was Bernond Howell. He was the son of a woman who had him quite young, a teenage mother who sadly abandoned him and left him in the care of his grandfather starting from this, as he already began with a rather difficult life. His childhood was lonely.

1:13:00 Juan Ge did not like to relate to other people. It is also up to him to have president who no one took care of him, that is, because his grandmother did take care of him, but because he did as the kite from time to time, and Eye, on some occasions was raped and beaten by older and younger boys of him, According to it mentioned, Juan Gel was also constant sexual abuse suffered by older men and it is believed that at some time he was also a victim. She gave a rape at the school itself. What happens when time passed she, when this character, David Coris, grew up, he was more or less adult, decided to deepen his studies in biblical readings and began to attend the Southern Baptist Church n In this place, he stayed for a while, but, as it was not much to his liking and decided to leave this place quickly and decided to visit his mother, who belonged to the Seventh- day Adventist Church. Here, she had a little relationship with her. It began as if to resume those bonds between mother and son, but not in an ideal way. In a thousand nine hundred and eighty- one, this subject to Cores made the decision to move to Huaco Juang in Texas and there he began in the branch of the Davidians. As I mentioned, what' s going on? This

1:14:30 branch was characterized by their distrust of the outside world and they simply perceived the outside world as a constant threat. I mean, they didn' t want to have contact with the outside world. For this reason, they decided to have firearms and ammunition, as they distrusted outsiders. A few years later, just two years later, this guy had an affair with the leader of this sect, a sixty- year- old lady. Right now, David Corrige. At that time he was only twenty- three, twenty- four. Then, for there was a fairly wide difference in ages and he at this point, he then proclaimed himself as the supreme God, that he had had a vision of God and had given him a gift which he was supposed to beget. Well, he had to give life to a new messiah, so to speak, he had self- proclaimed a messiah and so on, he said he was going to bring to life or a new messiah. For this reason he had the right to rape different women of the sect, because he said that he had to have a child. So, he was messing with girls, with teenagers and older women with the thing that I had to have sex with her, because of some na it would be the right messiah, John, with that excuse so sought after day, holy that authentic, I have to cut you camel what we are getting to the end of block,

1:16:02 but then you keep telling us that story and the beliefs of these davidians that are crazy, that I imagine they will turn like everything back to primitive Christianity. We all live in community. We' re, well, I didn ' t go to the others. Finally the usual was telling us Camilo Manjarres, the belief of the Davidians and good that they are a sect within a sect. This is already a crazy thing about this David Corres, who has a fer with a lady who was the leader of the sect, has a vision, says that of him they are going to make the new messiah and that was the excuse to have sex with all the people who were there and how this crazy story follows. Camilo Juis Juan arrived in the year of one thousand nine hundred and ninety- three and, according to the evidence or would have this subject by the State Department, the leader and the Taavidians committed acts of rape and child abuse against girls within eight and eleven years. That is to say a rather despicable being what this subject was doing, as in the Community he had weapons, as mentioned above, and ammunition and so on.

1:17:11 These circumstances gave the proper excuse to the officers of the Tobacco Alcohol Bureau and Gambling Weapons and Explosives to TF which is an extremely important agency in North America that has almost the same level of importance as I asked for to investigate them. The year of nine hundred and ninety- two Juan arrives that Alejo and Edvin, and this is where the FBI is constantly beginning to monitor that sect. They start to go to this place closely, they get close to a building and they start to keep an eye on them because they find it rather peculiar what is happening here. The Davidians armed themselves and took defense positions when they realized that the F V is firing them. Moreover, as mentioned, it is believed that there was an agent of faith who was infiltrated and, because of this it was that this sect this group of people realized that they were spying on them at a time. It has not been possible to determine who started the dispute. Both FBI agents and people from this group are starting to shoot each other. He' s a cult in ninety- two, and there' s a blast of fire. Juan, obviously, there are others injured, but not that up there they end up in a certain way like the shooting, in case he did it in colloquial words. And so, the FBI decides to cut the electricity, decide to remove the water and

1:18:44 put music with quite large speakers, but not pretty music, as listeners were thinking, but music like metals two, yes, yes, perctally psychological tortures and after metal sounds of pigs that are as mated as good. So he took Noriega out of the house, the dictator of Panama did not stand twenty - four hours with the music all over the place. That is to say, I have also used that tactic of psychological manipulation by the United States military against gedcounheen Vietnam. I mean, it wasn' t a new tactic. Oh, no, you don' t think it' s silly like that, but put 24 hours to listen to a metal after metal and nasty sounds in a reggaeton hold. Or remember, it' s worse torture. So because you cast the Hasel Rashmen and man forgiveness. That' s torture, that' s attempted murder. But, well, how do we agree?

1:19:45 Keep walking, right, don' t worry. Well, then what happens? This technique is torture. It lasts fifty- one days, John driving away, and that is fifty- two, fifty- one day, with that music, water without electricity and with these rather large speakers. After these fights, there are obviously several wounded, several dead and in the last few days you know how to set fire to the whole place. Juange, because he says well, here we all go. But I mean, I didn ' t go to. He works to see and this subject sets fire to this place, thus leaving several dead and ending his own life. The photographs are quite strong because they were able to take pictures of how the corpses of these people were left and the videos circulating is quite, or disturbing. It looks like a little war because they see fire fired, which is a rather sad and unfortunate event that happened in Huaco, Texas. Yes, this was crazy because it actually lasted, it lasted relatively long and not even just the FBI agents and they took SWAT and there was no way in, because they were shooting tremendous shots right away. I remember at that time one of the scenes that is some policemen or members of the suat climbing up a ladder, down a side near a window and like a window, comes out a guy

1:21:15 shoots and loads it. It is a very crazy thing, not that I think it had to do also good, because with this issue of returning to early Christianity, we are a hermandate. What' s out there is negative, the paranoia of a leader. That is true here with a total sexual component, absolutely tremendous and with some absurd components of violence. And I think the question for Vidding olo Haya is a must. The fact that he had such a violent childhood. Possibly it also marked that violence he was doing in the group and that violent ending of the group, what sorrows with him comes in what sorrows with you or I really have a little question for Evin.

1:22:03 I was also looking for information, reading and I realized that there is a psychologist in American surname, Carlos Rogers, who has a rather interesting theory, which is the theory of phenomenology. And so he practically mentions that each person perceives the world and reality in a particular way, that is, each person, from his experiences, builds his own reality. That is, when this subject David Curris, he believed that he had this vision of God which commanded him to have relations with women. I' m going to apply this theory of phenomenology, or it can be as John suddenly said a disorder because of what happened to him in his super- okay youth ready. Well, what ' s going on? We' re all starting from the certainty that he was abused and it turns out the investigation didn' t show everything he said.

1:23:01 And here I' m going to get into the profile of the leaders remember a while ago when I told them that they rebuild themselves that they assume a role. It turns out that many times they pose a difficult history of childhood, of social, political, economic difficulties that supposedly use it because it did not happen to tell their future adherents. See what I got by believing in what I believe. Think you can accomplish by believing in what I believe in that order of ideas About Edvit Gorege, the stories he told about abuse.

1:23:47 The vast majority could not really be verified. Yes, which is more or less the same thing that happened with Garavito when he said he had been abused and the whole thing and despite the inquiries that were made it was not possible to verify then. But rather, beyond this circumstance, the truth is that exposure in childhood to violent situations may not favor it so much that it replicates it, because that is a hypothesis that has already been reconsidered and has almost been invalidated, undone, yes, completely discarded that I was a victim of violence. Then I' ll, later, replicate it. Not the interpretation that today is given more and has to do with what Camilo mentions, only from other psychology fronts that are backed up. It is evident that the naturalization of violence occurs as a mechanism to achieve a particular goal. However, let' s see that here he did not get his people with violence.

1:24:55 His violent response was when the FEDERA agents arrived and why Juan Jesús, Alejandro Camilo and the listeners use Twitter. I' m saying Twitter because I' m not three X anymore. I don' t get used to x. But when you' re doing something you like to be satisfied with, eating watching a movie, I don' t know being on a very satisfying stage and someone comes to interrupt you and tell you they can' t do it. What is the human response, immediate, aggressiveness, clear resistance. The IRA comes out because in addition, the IRA is an emotion of defense.

1:25:35 When I feel threatened. And the truth is that David and watch this he really and that are told by several of his former followers, he did not believe what he was saying. Let' s go back to jim' s all that wagon. I mean, there are very few leaders of coercive persuasion groups who believe what they' re saying. The vast majority are a libretto. The rest is the hook as psychopaths. Then a Juange performance is a performance. That' s why I was telling you a moment ago, you ' re the best sellers on the face of the earth. Of course they have a target audience for that. Now we talk a little bit. But the truth is, they don' t believe that story. They really what they' re looking for through that lib and Breto are three three move three main motivations and that' s ultra mega documented. First money, second sex, third power and are not mutually exclusive. Then and why these motivations are clear, because in them the vast majority are not even psychotic eyes. They have narcissistic personality disorders, which makes them feel that they should be a source of recognized constant. And the narcissist, because of his psychopathological characteristics, is

1:27:05 going to constantly manipulate and he is going to perceive others as objects, which was what Deaddy did running in Waico, when the first line of fire he put after the initial confrontation that Camilo told us, was women and children, when the ATF, along with the local police teams and the Suat team had not yet arrived their at dell FBI, because at the time everyone arrived they established a line of communication because, clearly, as in the case of Jim Jones, there were people who wanted to get out and were not allowed, and these people were dissatisfied with the ideology and with what was happening, especially with the girls who started arguing between them. And, as Camilo mentions, it' s not that it' s believed, it' s that there really was an undercover person because that group was already being the object of interest for months by the authorities, when enough evidence was already available. First of arms and second of abuse is that it was decided, very wrongly that the incursion was to be armed. There was the first flaw in this circumstance in this situation forgiveness, so what does Korrese do when hell is already unleashed, say, on the telephone line with negotiators who, if they enter, what

1:28:38 they are going to face is with children and armed women and in fact, there are videos of armed children around the estate. And that caused the armed incursion to be restricted, limited. And that' s when a great negotiation begins that led to the application not only of what I walk from music, but of other kinds of psychological techniques. I wouldn' t say torture, because torture would involve another psychological phenomenon, but it would be a strategy and I' m going to stick to the examples that you put John Jesus and Alexander, and that is saturation, sensory overstimulation. What is sought is to diminish the capacity of reason and defense of the individuals to accept another type of reasoning, another type of proposal, in this case it was to deliver women and children and then we arrange among men words more, words less, besides that there were different teams of negotiators. That' s why it lasted so long. What happens to being Korege, a narcissist, pathological, ultra confident of himself, with a charisma, with a persuasion and believed to be the ultimate coke tail in the desert. We say the ones over 40. What ' s going on? He decides yes, to set the fire. In fact, he gave the order to his seconds to set fire. But notice

1:30:11 that what I' m going to mention to you is the determining detail. Korege was seriously injured. He wasn' t going to give himself up alive or let them find his body. That' s why he gave the order to burn all God is because he was already going to die, he was going to lose, but he was going to lose on his terms, with everything around him, with everything around him. Camilo said so, more than fifty- so many people dead, more than two dozen injured. In fact, it was so media coverage that the extremes of one group and the extremes of the other were noticed. I' m talking about Korege' s group and the police that even an anecdote here, a pretty dark anecdote. I say I get to think a lot about the nature of evil in the spiritual plane, and it is that many people came to see what was happening.

1:31:09 While it is true, the police set up a barricade and a security cordon so that they would not approach the property to the estate. There were many people who came to see what was happening and to support Correge and one of the people who came to support him was a little boy named Timothy mc bath. Already Alejandro began to head like a bus dog saying that' s the digity data and mc bay came to support it because he saw that what the United States government was doing was an abuse, because every American has the right to do with his life and to have the weapons he wanted. For those of you who don' t know, I' m going to let Alejandro tell us a little bit about the microhistory of what this spectator of Huaiko' s attack by the name Timothy mcdade Alejandro mar did in a thousand nine hundred or not And since he linked with what was said by Edven author in material and intellectual of a big bombing in Oklahoma, a terrorist attack that until before eleven that had probably been the most important terrorist attack that had occurred in the United States in that first half of the 1990s. Another interesting detail that goes beyond what Evin says with this Oklahoma story, it turns out that Dylan Cliblet and Eric Harris, the boys who perpetrated the Codon Vine massacre, said or

1:32:43 at least according to some investigators, that what they were doing or what they did at that school in Colombine was a demand of David Correge' s movement. Imagine John Jesus in the late nineties the exact dexas, i e, imagine as one act of violence is infused with two others, in this case the bombing of Oklahoma and the codomb Bye. Now about Huaiko, which I find this story fascinating. Juan ge Edwin, Camilo and listeners, was the largest military deployment in U S history against civilians. More than six hundred and sixty people, sixty- ten Bradley Juange tanks ten Bradley tanks employed in this case the United States armed forces to attend to this contingency. Crazy now about what Camilo was telling us and a very important detail. When Korege began to arm himself to the teeth and began to investigate the amount of money they invested in buying weapons and so on, Juange realized that this gentleman had invested more than$ 250, 000 in a prano this for weapons and of course the authorities said, so that some civilians want to spend so much money on weapons.

1:34:04 That was one of the first alarms that made the authorities focus on this group. Jorge isn' t really crazy. That is, and then, for example, the fact that olaya said very nice that the urban legend and he said he had sexual abuse of girl blah blah blah blah. There is absolutely nothing proven, that is also by becoming the victim and that he was able to overcome adversities and such to have his group controlled. And then, for the usual is not something that is based on Christian philosophy, when the principle of Christian philosophy tells us the opposite. How can you deform so much that you end up in this madness and I think it is the case of Sectama Apura because of what happened during so many more media days of history and other supreme truth in Japan And such, but none I believe that you that repercussion so tremendous and fixed that it is six minutes to finish the program to innovate. Time to count and life is yours. We had put in the script five sects and it has given time to count. Two. I can give two strokes of Heavens Gate, but since it makes me even ashamed, because for what we are going to tell almost it is not worth it better or let everyone speak. And so, if it is true, I am going to give myself a brushstroke of Heavens Gate, which caused in March of the year one thousand nine hundred ninety- seven thirty- nine dead. And this is a case that bothers me especially because, if you use the extraterrestrial

1:35:36 theme and the theme of the omnis, which is something that I have dedicated to an important part of my life and the years, two crucial people in marches, apple Wade and Bonny Nettels. I think Marsha apple Wade freaks out when his partner dies, even though he was gay. The sentimental companion, but he was, he was gay and, well, he had a crazy, crazy, in the sense that he said he was getting a message from aliens. And besides, well, not only that, but he plays with the theme that Jesus Christ was extraterrestrial as another group how we advertise soli, for example, in Italy he plays with this and, well, terrible this whole story that ends, even though everyone ingests a cocktail of vodka and barbiturates.

1:36:30 If not authentic, not authentic, madness is good, but anyway, well, don' t trust the subject of the great aliens Amos the euphology, but be very careful what I have said before with everything that are false messiahs and we are already coming to the end of this podcast and I will give you passage for each of you to give your conclusion and your closure. First Mr Edwin Olaya. Well, Juan Gel, thank you very much. I would like to mention it here and hope to do so in two minutes. I had to do some kind of consulting to a mother who was here in Colombia, here in Bogotá, who was very worried about what was going on with her daughter, because she ended up in a sect, because here in Colombia, there are also sects and there are many and some are surrounded by mysteries and interesting chévere, but others are much more destructive, because they are really groups of coercive persuasion. And this woman I' ve been talking to for over ten years. I was wondering, but why, my daughter, because she, and even though it' s true, she had a hard time understanding it. What I would like to share with all listeners is as follows. Entering a group of these has to do with individual vulnerabilities.

1:38:01 Therefore, anyone is susceptible, any of us is susceptible to fall into a sect. Here we cannot arrive with a kind of pseudo moral and intellectual superiority. Saying I haven' t studied enough for or I don' t have enough resources. Not why, because sects, or rather these groups are always going to shoot very specific targets. And that and that and by that I mean people who are going through personal crises, affective labor, who are going through adolescence and have a lot of doubts about their future, who even have problems relating to others, who even have little documented concerns, spiritual concerns, undocumented scientists, who have not been able to be prosecuted in an adequate way.

1:38:56 Also people with very marked features of naivety, idealism, altruism. In other cases they may be people with dependent personality trait or who are even very socially isolated. So what this means is that this is not about unwary people or people in monotony or superficial people, but what these groups really do is look for the best buyers to sell their product to you and, consequently, any of us are the target buyer of any of these groups, because that ' s when the final reflection comes. We need to be aware of what these gaps are, what those gaps are, what are those questions that move us that affect us in order to recognize eventually where someone is the leader of a sect or a couple in a toxic relationship, it can manipulate us to produce a lot of damage. Friend, therefore, thank you so much for your reflection Listen and your social networks your YouTube channel so that people can follow you Juan Jesús. Thank you all so much. A pleasure to share with you and it will be a pleasure to do and continue sharing if you accompany me on Instagram and olaya m and more special on YouTube. Canal bar criminological contents of this kind pure reality, zero fiction from the knowledge of cases,

1:40:30 criminals and science. Welcome, everyone. Thank you so much to my crazy friend, Camilo Manjarres, your conclusion of your closure and yes, Juan that good of the good one. First of all, Thank you for the invitation, Thanks to Juange Alejo, I came to Cado listening for allowing me to be here and good from the social sciences and history. I think this can be analyzed in detail, because we find that these sects, these groups, have very interesting characteristics that are analyzed in the social sciences, such as symbolic violence. In symbolic violence, discourse analysis and so on. So I think it' s a pretty interesting topic and that we could later why not talk about sects in Colombia It' ll be a pretty interesting topic. And again, thank you for the invitation. I think it' s great, thanks to you, your social networks, your YouTube channel. Camilo of course yes, Juan, you can follow me both on Instagram and YouTube, like mysterio or when or my story or the dark floor. I handle the whole mystery theme. And again, thank you for the invitation. Thank you very much, my friend, Alejandro Berna. Your conclusion of your closure very quickly, John ge a review through manipulation sadly, do not let yourselves be isolated from anyone, do not let much sense be manipulated as much critical thinking. I think it is the great reflection of this program and you can follow me on social networks, on Twitter, Instagram and tiktok in arroba ale bernol presco en les and if you like my work, I invite you to subscribe to my YouTube channel. Mandragura mysteries Mandragura mysteries on YouTube. You can say that this

1:42:04 is one of the programs that I have liked for a long time because of that reflection that we have made about the society in which we live and for the society that surrounds us fundamental that critical thinking. Read document and change your mind, which is wonderful to change your mind. It' s all right, don' t believe in the chosen ones. We are all chosen and never, never forget that we live in a magical world, because it is full of mystery