May 12, 2024
¿Hay recambio generacional en la política colombiana?
Los jóvenes han sido siempre una parte importante de la política nacional: desde el movimiento de la Séptima Papeleta hasta las movilizaciones del estallido social. Sin embargo, esa participación no se ha visto reflejada en la edad de los líderes políticos. ¿Por qué casi no crecen figuras políticas jóvenes bajo la sombra de los grandes políticos?, ¿son apáticos los jóvenes a participar en política?
Para este capítulo hablamos con Andrés Sampayo, Doctor en Estudios Políticos e Internacionales; con el exconcejal Martín Rivera; con Mateo Ortiz, investigador y docente del Observatorio Javeriano de Juventud; con el exprocurador y miembro del movimiento de la séptima papeleta, Fernando Carrillo; y con el consultor político, Gonzalo de Francisco.
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I' m Roberto Pombo. Welcome
to my questions, a half- hurry
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program sponsored by Kfam Theatre. Much
more than theater. Young people have always
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been an important part of national politics, from the Seventh Paper movement to the
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mobilizations of social outbursts. However,
such participation has not been reflected in the
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age of political leaders. Why young
political figures hardly grow under the shadow of
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big politicians. Young people are apathetic
to participating in politics. For this chapter,
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we spoke with Andrés Sampaio, a
doctor in political and international studies,
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with former councillor MartÃn Rivera, with
Mateo Ortiz, researcher and teacher at the
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Javeriano Youth Observatory, with the former
prosecutor and member of the 7th ballot movement,
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Fernando Carril, and with the political
consultant Gonzalo de Francisco Soy Roberto Pombo.
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And this is chapter eighty- seven
of my welcome questions. I do
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not know if you have ever stopped
to observe the forest landscape anywhere in the
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country, almost in any region,
it is not only rich, but wonderful
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and hypnotic. From Yarumos guayacanes to
Palmeras and Ceibas, we grew accustomed to
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being surrounded by greens in their many
shades. According to the Humboldt Institute,
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in the country there are one thousand
two hundred and fifty- four species of
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endemic trees and shrubs, that is, that are typical of Acá, but
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also to add the five hundred ninety- seven species of plants introduced and among
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them are two that we see almost
every day that practically hide in the landscape,
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some trees that grow in almost all
departments, especially in cold places that
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have taken much of the landscape,
the eucalyptus and cypress pines. Of this
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tree there are about fifteen species in
the country and it is said to be
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a productive tree that gives very fast
wood and that is hard wood to work,
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which grows very fast. It is
also one of the bees' favorite
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trees to build their hives. However, as with any species that is introduced,
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it has had its problems. For
example, it is said to be
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a tree with a high water consumption. It is estimated that a tree consumes
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peinte liters per day. But the
adverse effect that struck me most by reading
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about this tree is that, as
they are so large, they require a
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lot of room to grow and if
two or more are sown together, one
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must be cut off so that another
grows very few. Other species grow under
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these immense trees, first of all, because their shadow does not allow the
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light to reach the base, but
also, because it causes many minerals from
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the earth to rise to the surface
and become more acidic under the shadow of
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the eucalyptus. It' s hard
for something else to grow or you can
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' t sow two of them very
close together. They are shadows that in
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many cases are not so beneficial,
something like the shadow that projects in much
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of the political arenas in Colombia,
a land that seems very acidic and that
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has become almost infertile for younger political
actors florish. It' s a matter
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of ego. There are no young
people who want to follow these steps.
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Let' s look at most of
the current generation of political leaders started about
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thirty- five to forty years ago. Colombia lived in convulsive moments of violence,
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though when not, but it was
thirty- four years ago that student
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leaders, former members of the Areme
guerrillas, nineteen career politicians and citizens of
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multiple origins came together to draft the
Constitution that we have today. Let us
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then go back to March of one
thousand nine hundred and ninety. On that
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day the country was attending a new
election day to elect senators, representatives to
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the House, deputies of local assemblies, municipal councillors, mayors and the presidential
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candidate of the Liberal Party. Then, at the polling stations, each voter
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received six ballots. However, other
ballots appeared at the polls that had the
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text that said plebichito for Colombia vote
for a Constituent Assembly that reforms the Constitution
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and determines political, social and economic
changes for the benefit of the people.
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Those in charge of having that ballot
existed were a group of university students in
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their 20 months. Then, May
27, 1990, together with the presidential
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elections, was also voted for a
plebiscite to organize a constituent National Assembly,
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which gave life to the current Constitution, that of one thousand nine hundred and
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ninety- one. More than five
million Colombians voted in favour of three thousand
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and five hundred constituent works. It
is the most impressive pontive work of the
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yasido indigenous witness rei blessing five hundred
years of forgetfulness Christian catolysis to all those
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atheists, then despised, coming to
peace, representatives of the senditalist and traditional
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political stragracies. In this group of
young people were, among many others,
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the former mayor of Bogotá, Claudio
López, former prosecutor Fernando Carrillo, former
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senator Antonio Sanguino and academic Catalina Botero. How it was that such an important
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event for the history of the country. It started with a group of university
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students and not experienced politicians. I
moved the question to former prosecutor Fernando Carrillo,
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who was part of that movement,
and this was told to me by
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the Seventh Paper and the constituent process
of nine hundred and ninety- one begins
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at the moment of greater repodio and
discredit in the traditional political class. That
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is why the politicians did not approach
the R Septima Papeleta movement, which had
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been born as a civil society movement, which had consolidated itself in the public
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and private universities of Colombia and which, in some way, was a kind
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of goal that we put to the
political class in an oversight where in a
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great parenthesis of the political history of
Colombia, that intilism and corruption were not
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seen neither contracts, nor appointments,
nor favoritism, and there was a clean
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process from civil society, from the
bottom up, from the top down,
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as it is intended to somehow force
a constituent process. That' s why
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they were work tables. It was
a march of the silence of the students,
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a process of collective construction and I
would say the greatest political consensus in
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the history of Colombia, which had
social forces and, of course, to
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which the political forces joined when the
success of the Septima Papeleta was already seen,
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because we also went to respect the
institutions. The process of the Septima
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Papeleta was a process of three direct
resources to the people. He participated in
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the elections on 11 March. It
wins the seventh ballot 27 May, votes
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with the Constituent Card and settles.
The Constituent Assembly was convened on December 9,
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1990. Then there were one hundred
and fifty days without political class,
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one hundred and fifty days in which
traditional politics creaked. The ideal would have
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been that the spirit of the constituent
would have been maintained for three decades.
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Unfortunately, that has not been the
case. But without prejudice to that,
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the Constitution of the 1990s is still
more in force than ever before. It
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must be respected, it must be
implemented, it must be fulfilled and it
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must not be thrown overboard, as
some are now mentioning, but let us
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now move forward. Up to two
thousand nineteen, the country goes through protest
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days of demonstrations. An Attribute Reform
proposal put forward by the government of then
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President Ivan Duke, unleashed the disconformity
of thousands of people, especially young people,
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who came out in the streets and
started what was known as the social
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outburst, which spread even to two
thousand twenty- one, with a pause
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of two thousand twenty for the pandemic
of covid nineteen. This mobilization, which
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took thousands of young people to the
streets for several days, was the germ
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of the election of the first left- wing government in the country, that
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of President Gustavo Peto. However,
it did not end in a generational renewal
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of power. When one of the
presidential candidates of the last elections or at
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least those of the twenty- first
century. It is almost common for Savrun
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are almost all surnames, repeated by
men over the age of fifty or even
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sixty Pastrana, Serpa, Mocus,
Santos Uribe, Gaviria. I am referring
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to Carlos Diedio, leader of the
democratic pole Zuloaga Fajardo Petro. And it
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is that to find a candidate and
even president under forty, you have to
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go up to one thousand nine hundred
forty five, when Alberto Hillera was president
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for the first time with thirty-
nine years. To find a younger president,
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you have to go until the 19th
century, to one thousand eight hundred
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twenty- eight, when Estalistado Vergara
was president at thirty- eight years old
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and even the first president of the
country. Simon Bolivar took office at the
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age of one thousand eight hundred and
nineteen and thirty- six. Perhaps the
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most recent case was that of former
President Duque, who led the presidency when
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he was forty- two, the
youngest in this century. But to see,
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for example, the two candidates of
the second round last, Gustavo Petro
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at sixty- two years old and
his rival, Rodolfo Hernández, who was
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little more than winning at seventy-
seven years old. It makes me think
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of the few new or at least
young names that there are the presidential cards
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of recent times. But beyond the
ages of the presidents, I want to
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refer to something I mentioned a moment
ago, and it is the leaders of
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Colombia' s largest political parties and
movements that almost always repeat presidential campaign,
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but that, like the eucalyptus,
do not allow leadership to grow under their
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shadow. Let' s look at
it on a case- by- case
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basis, let' s start with
the President and his movement. Today,
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reaching almost half of his term,
there are no young names that can continue
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with his legacy or at least keep
the left or left in power And if
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it is generally difficult to imagine who
can take the reins of the left in
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the country today, much less in
someone under the age of forty. The
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most visible faces of the President'
s movement are in Congress, such as
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Senator Ivan Zepeda, who is sixty- one, perhaps the youngest and most
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promising face the leftist movement has to
aspire to continue ruling. It is Senator
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MarÃa José Pizarro, who is in
her second term in Congress and has earned
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the confidence of President Petro, who
is no small thing. There are two
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figures in his cabinet. Laderaura Sarabia, the President' s right hand,
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which has proved to be a bridge
between the government and entrepreneurs. And we
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should also highlight the growth in image
of the director of the daily Juis,
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Carlos Reyes, who has become popular
on social networks, known as Mr.
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Taxis. Now let' s move
on to the center. Sergio Fajardo has
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captured the presidential candidacy of the political
center in several elections, but sixty-
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seven years ago he has not succeeded
in inheriting or at least, delegating to
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someone younger his political capital, his
citizen engagement movement has no congressional mayors or
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representatives in any corporation. The last
elections in which he participated were in the
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presidential past, but as part of
the central coalition hope And before that,
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he was from the territorial directorates of
two thousand nineteen, in which citizen engagement
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participated with the candidate IBN Mauricio Pérez, in which he had only two one
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percent of the votes. And another
relevant political figure is former Vice President Germán
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Vargas Lleras, who is still a
leader of his movement and who is still
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relevant in national politics. But there
are no known natural heirs who can take
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their reins in the past, when
it belonged to radical change, several young
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people at that time appeared in the
spotlights such as Rodrigo Lara, Restrepo,
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Carlos Fernando Galán, who has made
the entire political career from Dila to Ministers,
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the Senator of da vill Luna,
who at forty- nine years old
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is positioned as the youngest face of
this movement. Paradoxically, the right wing
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seems to be one of the few, not to say that the only movement
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that has managed to have at least
once a replacement former President Ivan Duque has
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been one of the youngest presidents we
have had or at least in the 21st
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century. Of course, they have
a very important weapon, and that is
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that the blessing of the former President
to any candidate gives a ticket, at
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least to the second presidential round,
being Federico Gutiérrez the only exception to this,
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although today the right with the former
President Uribe, retired from politics and
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a trial against him seems to be
cephala and the most notable figures are not
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exactly young, like Senators Paloma Valencia
and MarÃa Fernanda. Cabal of the few
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young faces that seem to be opening
their way to a future presidential career in
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this spectrum is that of Senator Miguel
Uribe Turbay, who has managed to rally
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and lead the opposition to President Petro' s government and is not yet forty
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years old. Carmesa salt Diaz is
an academic and co- founder of the
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Portal Razón Pública. She writes an
article on that page that gathers an analysis
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that concludes that we live in a
gerontocracy. According to salt Ten, in
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the country they still rule. Older
gentlemen who do not promote new leadership and
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do not believe the importance of including
young people and women in their teams,
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and the generational relay is still far
away in our country. I see this
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picture and wonder why it is so
difficult for young political figures to grow under
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the wing of the great political chieftains. I looked for a young politician You
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' re a councilman from Bogotá,
MartÃn Rivera, to help me answer.
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And this he told me in general, there is a political crisis and a
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crisis of leadership with everything that the
country has drunk since the beginning of the
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pandemic and in recent events, because
it generates that a lot of people who
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are not linked to political life do
not want to get in there. On
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the contrary, he prefers to be
far away, prefers to see him from
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outside, and prefers to criticize him. And in the specific case of Sergio
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Fajardo, he has been a leader
who has built all his work from opinion,
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from political activities far from traditional politics
and closely linked to the result of
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his own work. I would not
say that it is a leadership that opaque
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young leaders, but that those who
enter or enter that line have the responsibility
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and the job of shining with their
own light. It is not an electorate
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that votes for those who tell the
person for whom they voted that they should
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vote, but, on the contrary, a critical electorate, an electorate that
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is watching the new moves and an
increasingly dynamic electorate in the digital. Hence
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the challenge that new leaderships must emerge
from that creativity and that work of their
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own without expecting it to be accompanied
by a person with those characteristics. If
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we look at incorporations such as the
very main Councils, Congress, mayors and
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governorates, there are young people,
but how many are considered presidential. The
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law states that to be a senator
you must be at least thirty years old.
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To be a representative, at least
twenty- five, to be mayor
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you have to be at least thirty
and to be governor more than twenty-
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five. To be a councillor,
you have to be of age. This
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last position of popular election is,
in many cases, one of the first
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steps of many of the most notorious
politicians today, such as Federico GutiérrezÃlvaro
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Uribe or the same, President Petro, the title of the youngest councillor in
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Colombia changes every four years, when
an eighteen- year- old is chosen
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for that dignity. If you search
Google for the youngest councillor in Colombia,
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several names come out of multiple municipalities, such as Smith Caviedes in Algeciras,
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Huilla, Paula Gallego in Santuario in
Tiokia, Miguel Bedoya in Marinilla or Julián
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sastoque in Bogotá. The Congress is
also attended by many first- timers in
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the world of politics, such as
the representative Miguel Polo Polo, Jennifer Pedrassa
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of the Party of Dignity, Susana
Gomez, better known as Susana Borealis,
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of the Historical Pact. They are
congressmen with influence in the national debate,
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especially for their ages. They'
re under 30 years old. However,
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that is not enough to seriously aspire
to the President in the country. There
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is no shortage of initiatives to train
young people in politics. From NGOs student
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movements to the Ministry of the Interior
have set up political training schools for young
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people. However, there are a
number of obstacles to young people' s
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participation in politics, research, knowledge, opportunities and barriers to participation in politics.
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In support of the youth of Professor
Gloria Lina Castañeda found that there are
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two types of obstacles for young people
to participate in politics, internal factors that
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are located in themselves and those attributed
to external factors. Institutional, contextual,
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political, among others, among the
internal factors are apathy and lack of interest
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to know about issues of participation,
lack of self- confidence or are the
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result of the context of insecurity and
violence in your region and the lack of
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credibility and constitutionality. And the external
factors expressed by the young people surveyed were
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lack of institutional support, political and
institutional manipulation and their social context of violence
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and insecurity. Young people are more
or less involved in politics. He moves
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from the question to Andrés sampayo,
a doctor in political and international studies.
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In order to assess the participation of
young people in politics, it is essential
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to understand the political system in force
in Colombia, which is governed by the
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democratic principle. Democracy in its essence
is defined by the series criteria and attributes
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that embody fundamental values. In addition
to its primary electoral aspect, democracy includes
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liberal, participatory, liberating and egalitarian
aspects. In this context, young people
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actively participate in the participatory and liberating
dimensions of democracy. However, in Colombia
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there is a lack of evidence that
clarifies and this participation translates votes during the
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elections. This gap between the democratic
dimensions has a significant political impact. Although
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young people mobilize on the streets and
commit themselves to various causes, they often
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find their main references in music,
the series of films and books, rather
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than in the political sphere. When
politicians are able to present a viable future.
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We see an increase in youth participation
in the days leading up to the
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elections. However, in the absence
of this clear vision, frustration arises that
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does not necessarily translate into political inactivity, but can lead young people to seek
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inspiration in other areas. Both the
left, with its focus on socialism and
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on the right with its head of
the market economy, have failed to show
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a future, which has led many
young people to feel that their future has
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been cancelled. Therefore, they do
politics, but not with politicians, if
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it seems that the discontent of young
people with politics, at least partisan politics,
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is quite high. In October of
two thousand twenty- three, the
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Universidad del Rosario conducted the eighth perception
study that thinks, feels and wants young
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people in Colombia and according to studies, the thing is this way. Young
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people do not trust politicians or Internet
influencers. Both are at the bottom of
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the barrel with eighty- four percent
distrust and is not much better for religious
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leaders, who are not Catholics,
with seventy- five percent. The Congress
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and the media are not saved either
by around seventy- three percent, and
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what to say about social networks with
sixty- nine percent distrust and the national
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police sixty- four percent. There
is also a reserve for the sixty-
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four percent municipal governments. They don' t inspire much confidence either. Even
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the Catholic Church sixty- one percent
and the presidency fifty- eight percent are
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on the looserope. So there is
a distrust atmosphere that is breathed into the
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air. The Dani poll of political
culture of the year two thousand nineteen recorded
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that people between the ages of eighteen
and twenty- five had the lowest turnout
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in the presidential elections of two thousand
eighteen compared to the other age groups.
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Forty- three comma eight percent of
the population of these young people did not
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vote and thirty- two percent of
them did not vote out of selflessness and
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forgive me for continuing with more numbers, but all those I find are impressive.
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Last year, the Javeriana University and
the Young Resilients program of Ushaib and
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Abdi Boca conducted the survey resilient voices
to five thousand four hundred and sixty-
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five young people between the ages of
fourteen and twenty- eight, and it
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was concluded, among other things,
that the faith of young people in democratic
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institutions is on the ground. This
could be seen in his aja participation in
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elections, where only one in three
exercises his right to vote. Many are
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not even aware of the youth participation
platforms that have emerged recently, and it
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is not common to see them in
social or community organizations. In fact,
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only one in ten is part of
one, and many think that getting involved
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only brings them headaches. There are
more studies and more figures showing young people
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' s discontent with electoral politics.
But I' m not gonna fill them
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with river percentages. I' m
just going to give you one that'
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s more eloquent than the others.
In December two thousand twenty- one elections
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were held to the National Youth Council. Yes, if I didn' t
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know there was a National Youth Council, and of the more than 12 million
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young people between the ages of 14
and 28 who were eligible to vote,
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only one two million came. Here
comes a question similar to Egg and Chicken.
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Young people are not interested in politics
because they do not feel represented.
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Or they are not being represented because
they are not interested in participating. But
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to be more concrete, I asked
him what can be done to engage young
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people in political participation. The institutionalized
political participation of Colombian youth is better understood
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if we use a relational metaphor where
the state and youth are two people who
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are talking. When you are in
a conversation and feel that the other person
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does not listen to you, most
likely you stop talking to that person and
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engage in something else. And that' s where one of the data from
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the survey is going to be resilient
comes out. Sixty- five percent of
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young people consider that politicians do not
listen to them. And what happens precisely
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when one feels that one does not
listen to it, one loses confidence and
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that has generated that, in fact, the youth decide not to opt for
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institutionalized forms of political participation, that
is, to vote to participate in those
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spaces that call for mayors. And
in that sense it begins to translate to
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the fact that Thursdays do not participate, that it is very different from those
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together they participate in other ways,
and that has been fully documented. What
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happens and the challenge right now is
how we can link young people to institutional
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participation why, because that' s
where decisions are made that affect prepositions and
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the answer would be precisely ending.
Likewise, data on how to engage young
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people and wings in institutionalized political participation
through the recognition that it is to recognize,
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recognize that this is a subject that
has clear bets, effective needs and,
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yet, a great opportunity to contribute
to municipal, departmental or national decision
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- making. It is only there, behind the recognition, that we will
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ensure that young people really give themselves
a guarantee to participate and therefore engage in
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all these processes. But despite all
those figures and data that I recited,
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there is hope. The fact that
youth participation and electoral politics are low does
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not mean that they are depoliticized.
In two thousand twenty- two, the
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Luminat Foundation did research youth and democracy
in Latin America, in which they interviewed
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young people between sixteen and twenty-
four years of age from Colombia, Argentina,
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Brazil and Mexico. One of the
conclusions of this research is that this
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generation is politicized differently and is not
depoliticized, as is often believed. According
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to this research, young people perceive
political leaders as distant from everyday problems,
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especially those affecting youth. Politics seems
to them to be an elite game,
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which generates distrust in the traditional media, and that is why a large part
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of them, believing those of right- wing ideologies and non- aligned ones,
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prefer to be informed through international sources. There is a popular clamor to
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see new faces in politics that really
represent the people. If it rains in
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Colombia in other countries it is not
field. The next presidential election in the
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U S will be between an eighty- one man, Joe Biden, and
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another seventy- seven, Donald Trump, two literally and figuratively old faces of
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U S politics that far exceed the
average retirement age of Americans and, of
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course, has not left the people
of that country at rest. An ABC
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News itsus poll conducted in February found
that fifty- nine percent of Americans think
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both candidates are too old to serve
another term. The issue of a maximum
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age to aspire to certain positions emerged
in this country thanks to the upcoming elections
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and, as the BBC text on
this subject says, beyond the discussions on
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the fact that those autocracyes are generally
not representative of their population, there are
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other concerns. One of those concerns
is, of course, the health of
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the Prime Minister, and it is
not a secret to anyone who, while
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with age thirsting for experience and field, neuroscience and psychology suggests, cognitive performance
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varies widely as people age, making
it difficult to determine if someone can be
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too old to lead a country.
And while some skills tend to decrease with
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age, others improve on the other
side. There are those who think that
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to become President you have to have
experience and feel that youth does not give
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to these attributes. On the contrary, it' s a problem to be
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a rookie. It is age or
experience a guarantee of charity when choosing a
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president. He tells the question to
political consultant Gonzalo de Francisco, and this
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he answered me. The premise with
which I give birth is that I have
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a special appreciation to those people who
always vote for what they want, who
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sometimes vote to the left, sometimes
vote to the right, and who always
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do so from taking into account three
aspects that are key, three variables,
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On the one hand, experience,
on the other hand, the character of
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the candidate and, lastly, the
political stance of that candidate. It is
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clear that the character and political stance
have to do with the fact that this
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candidate has a journey, a journey
that obviously has to do with his age.
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But where the subject of experience is
fundamental and much more important. It
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is clear that experience, character and
political stance always have an environment at the
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moment when the vote takes place,
at the political juncture, in the sensitive
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issue that is taking precedence at a
given time for the reason of the vote
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of the people. But finally,
always what is the ability of the person
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to understand, his/ her environment, the way he/ she faces,
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the decision- making and the depth
of the problems and the position that,
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in my case, always tends to
be of center left, since they are
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determinants for the decision of the vote. There is a very thrilling phrase that
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says that young people are the future
of humanity, but I would say that
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youth are the present. It is
Or, at least, must be the
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driving force behind a country' s
changes now and not when they are more
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than forty years old, that they
must take the reins to achieve them.
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It is they who have put on
the table very important debates such as sexual
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and reproductive rights and mental health.
And it is through politics that the necessary
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changes can continue to be made,
as did the youth of the Seventh ballot
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in nine hundred and ninety. But
in order for these seeds to grow,
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it is necessary that the light that
does not shadow Eucalyptus, that leads them
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to grow and become the new leaders
of the country and the world, so
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that we cease to be governed by
a gerontocracy. I am Roberto Pombo and
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this was chapter eighty- seven of
my questions We will see you in the
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next chapter from now on. This
chapter of my questions is available on all
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podcast platforms. This episode was made
possible thanks to the Teatro cafam much more
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than Teatro Dirección Roberto Pombo, Producción
General, juan Abel Gutiérrez, Asesor editorial,
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00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:36.079
Daniel San Pedro Espina, scripts juan
Abel Gutiérrez and Johnny RodrÃguez. Field
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00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:41.400
production Marcela Salazar and LucÃa Beltrán.
Post- production of audio Carlos Bernar
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00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:11.359
I' m Roberto Pombo. Welcome
to my questions, a half- hurry
2
00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:20.480
program sponsored by Kfam Theatre. Much
more than theater. Young people have always
3
00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:25.239
been an important part of national politics, from the Seventh Paper movement to the
4
00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:31.879
mobilizations of social outbursts. However,
such participation has not been reflected in the
5
00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:38.119
age of political leaders. Why young
political figures hardly grow under the shadow of
6
00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:44.479
big politicians. Young people are apathetic
to participating in politics. For this chapter,
7
00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:49.320
we spoke with Andrés Sampaio, a
doctor in political and international studies,
8
00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:55.520
with former councillor MartÃn Rivera, with
Mateo Ortiz, researcher and teacher at the
9
00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:59.679
Javeriano Youth Observatory, with the former
prosecutor and member of the 7th ballot movement,
10
00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:04.159
Fernando Carril, and with the political
consultant Gonzalo de Francisco Soy Roberto Pombo.
11
00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:11.120
And this is chapter eighty- seven
of my welcome questions. I do
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not know if you have ever stopped
to observe the forest landscape anywhere in the
13
00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:19.560
country, almost in any region,
it is not only rich, but wonderful
14
00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:25.680
and hypnotic. From Yarumos guayacanes to
Palmeras and Ceibas, we grew accustomed to
15
00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:30.200
being surrounded by greens in their many
shades. According to the Humboldt Institute,
16
00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:34.840
in the country there are one thousand
two hundred and fifty- four species of
17
00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:38.959
endemic trees and shrubs, that is, that are typical of Acá, but
18
00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:46.120
also to add the five hundred ninety- seven species of plants introduced and among
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00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:49.719
them are two that we see almost
every day that practically hide in the landscape,
20
00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:55.480
some trees that grow in almost all
departments, especially in cold places that
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00:01:55.519 --> 00:02:00.000
have taken much of the landscape,
the eucalyptus and cypress pines. Of this
22
00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:05.120
tree there are about fifteen species in
the country and it is said to be
23
00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:08.800
a productive tree that gives very fast
wood and that is hard wood to work,
24
00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:13.479
which grows very fast. It is
also one of the bees' favorite
25
00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:17.960
trees to build their hives. However, as with any species that is introduced,
26
00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:22.719
it has had its problems. For
example, it is said to be
27
00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.919
a tree with a high water consumption. It is estimated that a tree consumes
28
00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:30.319
peinte liters per day. But the
adverse effect that struck me most by reading
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00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:36.159
about this tree is that, as
they are so large, they require a
30
00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:39.159
lot of room to grow and if
two or more are sown together, one
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must be cut off so that another
grows very few. Other species grow under
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these immense trees, first of all, because their shadow does not allow the
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light to reach the base, but
also, because it causes many minerals from
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the earth to rise to the surface
and become more acidic under the shadow of
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the eucalyptus. It' s hard
for something else to grow or you can
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' t sow two of them very
close together. They are shadows that in
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many cases are not so beneficial,
something like the shadow that projects in much
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of the political arenas in Colombia,
a land that seems very acidic and that
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has become almost infertile for younger political
actors florish. It' s a matter
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of ego. There are no young
people who want to follow these steps.
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Let' s look at most of
the current generation of political leaders started about
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thirty- five to forty years ago. Colombia lived in convulsive moments of violence,
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though when not, but it was
thirty- four years ago that student
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leaders, former members of the Areme
guerrillas, nineteen career politicians and citizens of
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multiple origins came together to draft the
Constitution that we have today. Let us
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then go back to March of one
thousand nine hundred and ninety. On that
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day the country was attending a new
election day to elect senators, representatives to
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the House, deputies of local assemblies, municipal councillors, mayors and the presidential
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candidate of the Liberal Party. Then, at the polling stations, each voter
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received six ballots. However, other
ballots appeared at the polls that had the
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text that said plebichito for Colombia vote
for a Constituent Assembly that reforms the Constitution
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and determines political, social and economic
changes for the benefit of the people.
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Those in charge of having that ballot
existed were a group of university students in
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their 20 months. Then, May
27, 1990, together with the presidential
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elections, was also voted for a
plebiscite to organize a constituent National Assembly,
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which gave life to the current Constitution, that of one thousand nine hundred and
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ninety- one. More than five
million Colombians voted in favour of three thousand
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and five hundred constituent works. It
is the most impressive pontive work of the
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yasido indigenous witness rei blessing five hundred
years of forgetfulness Christian catolysis to all those
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atheists, then despised, coming to
peace, representatives of the senditalist and traditional
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political stragracies. In this group of
young people were, among many others,
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the former mayor of Bogotá, Claudio
López, former prosecutor Fernando Carrillo, former
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senator Antonio Sanguino and academic Catalina Botero. How it was that such an important
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event for the history of the country. It started with a group of university
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students and not experienced politicians. I
moved the question to former prosecutor Fernando Carrillo,
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who was part of that movement,
and this was told to me by
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the Seventh Paper and the constituent process
of nine hundred and ninety- one begins
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at the moment of greater repodio and
discredit in the traditional political class. That
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is why the politicians did not approach
the R Septima Papeleta movement, which had
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been born as a civil society movement, which had consolidated itself in the public
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and private universities of Colombia and which, in some way, was a kind
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of goal that we put to the
political class in an oversight where in a
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great parenthesis of the political history of
Colombia, that intilism and corruption were not
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seen neither contracts, nor appointments,
nor favoritism, and there was a clean
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process from civil society, from the
bottom up, from the top down,
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as it is intended to somehow force
a constituent process. That' s why
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they were work tables. It was
a march of the silence of the students,
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a process of collective construction and I
would say the greatest political consensus in
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the history of Colombia, which had
social forces and, of course, to
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which the political forces joined when the
success of the Septima Papeleta was already seen,
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because we also went to respect the
institutions. The process of the Septima
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Papeleta was a process of three direct
resources to the people. He participated in
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the elections on 11 March. It
wins the seventh ballot 27 May, votes
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with the Constituent Card and settles.
The Constituent Assembly was convened on December 9,
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1990. Then there were one hundred
and fifty days without political class,
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one hundred and fifty days in which
traditional politics creaked. The ideal would have
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been that the spirit of the constituent
would have been maintained for three decades.
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Unfortunately, that has not been the
case. But without prejudice to that,
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the Constitution of the 1990s is still
more in force than ever before. It
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must be respected, it must be
implemented, it must be fulfilled and it
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must not be thrown overboard, as
some are now mentioning, but let us
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now move forward. Up to two
thousand nineteen, the country goes through protest
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days of demonstrations. An Attribute Reform
proposal put forward by the government of then
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President Ivan Duke, unleashed the disconformity
of thousands of people, especially young people,
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who came out in the streets and
started what was known as the social
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outburst, which spread even to two
thousand twenty- one, with a pause
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of two thousand twenty for the pandemic
of covid nineteen. This mobilization, which
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took thousands of young people to the
streets for several days, was the germ
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of the election of the first left- wing government in the country, that
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of President Gustavo Peto. However,
it did not end in a generational renewal
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of power. When one of the
presidential candidates of the last elections or at
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least those of the twenty- first
century. It is almost common for Savrun
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are almost all surnames, repeated by
men over the age of fifty or even
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sixty Pastrana, Serpa, Mocus,
Santos Uribe, Gaviria. I am referring
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to Carlos Diedio, leader of the
democratic pole Zuloaga Fajardo Petro. And it
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is that to find a candidate and
even president under forty, you have to
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go up to one thousand nine hundred
forty five, when Alberto Hillera was president
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for the first time with thirty-
nine years. To find a younger president,
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you have to go until the 19th
century, to one thousand eight hundred
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twenty- eight, when Estalistado Vergara
was president at thirty- eight years old
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and even the first president of the
country. Simon Bolivar took office at the
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00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:05.039
age of one thousand eight hundred and
nineteen and thirty- six. Perhaps the
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most recent case was that of former
President Duque, who led the presidency when
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he was forty- two, the
youngest in this century. But to see,
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for example, the two candidates of
the second round last, Gustavo Petro
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at sixty- two years old and
his rival, Rodolfo Hernández, who was
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little more than winning at seventy-
seven years old. It makes me think
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of the few new or at least
young names that there are the presidential cards
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of recent times. But beyond the
ages of the presidents, I want to
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refer to something I mentioned a moment
ago, and it is the leaders of
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Colombia' s largest political parties and
movements that almost always repeat presidential campaign,
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but that, like the eucalyptus,
do not allow leadership to grow under their
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shadow. Let' s look at
it on a case- by- case
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basis, let' s start with
the President and his movement. Today,
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reaching almost half of his term,
there are no young names that can continue
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with his legacy or at least keep
the left or left in power And if
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it is generally difficult to imagine who
can take the reins of the left in
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the country today, much less in
someone under the age of forty. The
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most visible faces of the President'
s movement are in Congress, such as
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Senator Ivan Zepeda, who is sixty- one, perhaps the youngest and most
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00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:22.320
promising face the leftist movement has to
aspire to continue ruling. It is Senator
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MarÃa José Pizarro, who is in
her second term in Congress and has earned
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the confidence of President Petro, who
is no small thing. There are two
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figures in his cabinet. Laderaura Sarabia, the President' s right hand,
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which has proved to be a bridge
between the government and entrepreneurs. And we
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00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.159
should also highlight the growth in image
of the director of the daily Juis,
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00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.120
Carlos Reyes, who has become popular
on social networks, known as Mr.
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00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:50.519
Taxis. Now let' s move
on to the center. Sergio Fajardo has
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00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:56.080
captured the presidential candidacy of the political
center in several elections, but sixty-
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seven years ago he has not succeeded
in inheriting or at least, delegating to
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00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:05.840
someone younger his political capital, his
citizen engagement movement has no congressional mayors or
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representatives in any corporation. The last
elections in which he participated were in the
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presidential past, but as part of
the central coalition hope And before that,
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he was from the territorial directorates of
two thousand nineteen, in which citizen engagement
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00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.519
participated with the candidate IBN Mauricio Pérez, in which he had only two one
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00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:28.480
percent of the votes. And another
relevant political figure is former Vice President Germán
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Vargas Lleras, who is still a
leader of his movement and who is still
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relevant in national politics. But there
are no known natural heirs who can take
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their reins in the past, when
it belonged to radical change, several young
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00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.960
people at that time appeared in the
spotlights such as Rodrigo Lara, Restrepo,
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00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:52.399
Carlos Fernando Galán, who has made
the entire political career from Dila to Ministers,
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the Senator of da vill Luna,
who at forty- nine years old
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is positioned as the youngest face of
this movement. Paradoxically, the right wing
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seems to be one of the few, not to say that the only movement
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that has managed to have at least
once a replacement former President Ivan Duque has
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been one of the youngest presidents we
have had or at least in the 21st
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century. Of course, they have
a very important weapon, and that is
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that the blessing of the former President
to any candidate gives a ticket, at
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least to the second presidential round,
being Federico Gutiérrez the only exception to this,
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although today the right with the former
President Uribe, retired from politics and
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00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:31.320
a trial against him seems to be
cephala and the most notable figures are not
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exactly young, like Senators Paloma Valencia
and MarÃa Fernanda. Cabal of the few
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young faces that seem to be opening
their way to a future presidential career in
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00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.879
this spectrum is that of Senator Miguel
Uribe Turbay, who has managed to rally
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and lead the opposition to President Petro' s government and is not yet forty
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years old. Carmesa salt Diaz is
an academic and co- founder of the
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Portal Razón Pública. She writes an
article on that page that gathers an analysis
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00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.919
that concludes that we live in a
gerontocracy. According to salt Ten, in
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the country they still rule. Older
gentlemen who do not promote new leadership and
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do not believe the importance of including
young people and women in their teams,
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and the generational relay is still far
away in our country. I see this
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picture and wonder why it is so
difficult for young political figures to grow under
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the wing of the great political chieftains. I looked for a young politician You
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' re a councilman from Bogotá,
MartÃn Rivera, to help me answer.
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And this he told me in general, there is a political crisis and a
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crisis of leadership with everything that the
country has drunk since the beginning of the
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pandemic and in recent events, because
it generates that a lot of people who
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are not linked to political life do
not want to get in there. On
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the contrary, he prefers to be
far away, prefers to see him from
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outside, and prefers to criticize him. And in the specific case of Sergio
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Fajardo, he has been a leader
who has built all his work from opinion,
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from political activities far from traditional politics
and closely linked to the result of
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his own work. I would not
say that it is a leadership that opaque
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young leaders, but that those who
enter or enter that line have the responsibility
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and the job of shining with their
own light. It is not an electorate
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that votes for those who tell the
person for whom they voted that they should
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vote, but, on the contrary, a critical electorate, an electorate that
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is watching the new moves and an
increasingly dynamic electorate in the digital. Hence
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the challenge that new leaderships must emerge
from that creativity and that work of their
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own without expecting it to be accompanied
by a person with those characteristics. If
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we look at incorporations such as the
very main Councils, Congress, mayors and
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governorates, there are young people,
but how many are considered presidential. The
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law states that to be a senator
you must be at least thirty years old.
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To be a representative, at least
twenty- five, to be mayor
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you have to be at least thirty
and to be governor more than twenty-
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00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.240
five. To be a councillor,
you have to be of age. This
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00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.840
last position of popular election is,
in many cases, one of the first
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steps of many of the most notorious
politicians today, such as Federico GutiérrezÃlvaro
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00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:33.559
Uribe or the same, President Petro, the title of the youngest councillor in
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Colombia changes every four years, when
an eighteen- year- old is chosen
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for that dignity. If you search
Google for the youngest councillor in Colombia,
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several names come out of multiple municipalities, such as Smith Caviedes in Algeciras,
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00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:52.000
Huilla, Paula Gallego in Santuario in
Tiokia, Miguel Bedoya in Marinilla or Julián
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00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:56.399
sastoque in Bogotá. The Congress is
also attended by many first- timers in
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00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.960
the world of politics, such as
the representative Miguel Polo Polo, Jennifer Pedrassa
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00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.720
of the Party of Dignity, Susana
Gomez, better known as Susana Borealis,
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00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.919
of the Historical Pact. They are
congressmen with influence in the national debate,
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00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.720
especially for their ages. They'
re under 30 years old. However,
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that is not enough to seriously aspire
to the President in the country. There
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is no shortage of initiatives to train
young people in politics. From NGOs student
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movements to the Ministry of the Interior
have set up political training schools for young
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00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:29.600
people. However, there are a
number of obstacles to young people' s
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participation in politics, research, knowledge, opportunities and barriers to participation in politics.
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00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:40.639
In support of the youth of Professor
Gloria Lina Castañeda found that there are
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two types of obstacles for young people
to participate in politics, internal factors that
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are located in themselves and those attributed
to external factors. Institutional, contextual,
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00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:53.960
political, among others, among the
internal factors are apathy and lack of interest
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to know about issues of participation,
lack of self- confidence or are the
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00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.399
result of the context of insecurity and
violence in your region and the lack of
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credibility and constitutionality. And the external
factors expressed by the young people surveyed were
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00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:15.079
lack of institutional support, political and
institutional manipulation and their social context of violence
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and insecurity. Young people are more
or less involved in politics. He moves
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from the question to Andrés sampayo,
a doctor in political and international studies.
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In order to assess the participation of
young people in politics, it is essential
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00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.880
to understand the political system in force
in Colombia, which is governed by the
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00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.839
democratic principle. Democracy in its essence
is defined by the series criteria and attributes
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00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:44.799
that embody fundamental values. In addition
to its primary electoral aspect, democracy includes
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00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:49.440
liberal, participatory, liberating and egalitarian
aspects. In this context, young people
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actively participate in the participatory and liberating
dimensions of democracy. However, in Colombia
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there is a lack of evidence that
clarifies and this participation translates votes during the
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elections. This gap between the democratic
dimensions has a significant political impact. Although
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young people mobilize on the streets and
commit themselves to various causes, they often
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find their main references in music,
the series of films and books, rather
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than in the political sphere. When
politicians are able to present a viable future.
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We see an increase in youth participation
in the days leading up to the
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elections. However, in the absence
of this clear vision, frustration arises that
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does not necessarily translate into political inactivity, but can lead young people to seek
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inspiration in other areas. Both the
left, with its focus on socialism and
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on the right with its head of
the market economy, have failed to show
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a future, which has led many
young people to feel that their future has
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been cancelled. Therefore, they do
politics, but not with politicians, if
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it seems that the discontent of young
people with politics, at least partisan politics,
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is quite high. In October of
two thousand twenty- three, the
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Universidad del Rosario conducted the eighth perception
study that thinks, feels and wants young
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people in Colombia and according to studies, the thing is this way. Young
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people do not trust politicians or Internet
influencers. Both are at the bottom of
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the barrel with eighty- four percent
distrust and is not much better for religious
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leaders, who are not Catholics,
with seventy- five percent. The Congress
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and the media are not saved either
by around seventy- three percent, and
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what to say about social networks with
sixty- nine percent distrust and the national
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police sixty- four percent. There
is also a reserve for the sixty-
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four percent municipal governments. They don' t inspire much confidence either. Even
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the Catholic Church sixty- one percent
and the presidency fifty- eight percent are
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on the looserope. So there is
a distrust atmosphere that is breathed into the
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air. The Dani poll of political
culture of the year two thousand nineteen recorded
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that people between the ages of eighteen
and twenty- five had the lowest turnout
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in the presidential elections of two thousand
eighteen compared to the other age groups.
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Forty- three comma eight percent of
the population of these young people did not
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vote and thirty- two percent of
them did not vote out of selflessness and
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forgive me for continuing with more numbers, but all those I find are impressive.
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Last year, the Javeriana University and
the Young Resilients program of Ushaib and
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Abdi Boca conducted the survey resilient voices
to five thousand four hundred and sixty-
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five young people between the ages of
fourteen and twenty- eight, and it
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was concluded, among other things,
that the faith of young people in democratic
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institutions is on the ground. This
could be seen in his aja participation in
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elections, where only one in three
exercises his right to vote. Many are
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not even aware of the youth participation
platforms that have emerged recently, and it
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is not common to see them in
social or community organizations. In fact,
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only one in ten is part of
one, and many think that getting involved
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only brings them headaches. There are
more studies and more figures showing young people
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' s discontent with electoral politics.
But I' m not gonna fill them
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with river percentages. I' m
just going to give you one that'
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s more eloquent than the others.
In December two thousand twenty- one elections
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were held to the National Youth Council. Yes, if I didn' t
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know there was a National Youth Council, and of the more than 12 million
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young people between the ages of 14
and 28 who were eligible to vote,
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only one two million came. Here
comes a question similar to Egg and Chicken.
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Young people are not interested in politics
because they do not feel represented.
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Or they are not being represented because
they are not interested in participating. But
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to be more concrete, I asked
him what can be done to engage young
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people in political participation. The institutionalized
political participation of Colombian youth is better understood
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if we use a relational metaphor where
the state and youth are two people who
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are talking. When you are in
a conversation and feel that the other person
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does not listen to you, most
likely you stop talking to that person and
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engage in something else. And that' s where one of the data from
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the survey is going to be resilient
comes out. Sixty- five percent of
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young people consider that politicians do not
listen to them. And what happens precisely
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when one feels that one does not
listen to it, one loses confidence and
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that has generated that, in fact, the youth decide not to opt for
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institutionalized forms of political participation, that
is, to vote to participate in those
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spaces that call for mayors. And
in that sense it begins to translate to
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the fact that Thursdays do not participate, that it is very different from those
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together they participate in other ways,
and that has been fully documented. What
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happens and the challenge right now is
how we can link young people to institutional
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participation why, because that' s
where decisions are made that affect prepositions and
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the answer would be precisely ending.
Likewise, data on how to engage young
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people and wings in institutionalized political participation
through the recognition that it is to recognize,
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recognize that this is a subject that
has clear bets, effective needs and,
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yet, a great opportunity to contribute
to municipal, departmental or national decision
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- making. It is only there, behind the recognition, that we will
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ensure that young people really give themselves
a guarantee to participate and therefore engage in
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all these processes. But despite all
those figures and data that I recited,
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there is hope. The fact that
youth participation and electoral politics are low does
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not mean that they are depoliticized.
In two thousand twenty- two, the
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Luminat Foundation did research youth and democracy
in Latin America, in which they interviewed
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young people between sixteen and twenty-
four years of age from Colombia, Argentina,
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Brazil and Mexico. One of the
conclusions of this research is that this
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generation is politicized differently and is not
depoliticized, as is often believed. According
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to this research, young people perceive
political leaders as distant from everyday problems,
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especially those affecting youth. Politics seems
to them to be an elite game,
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which generates distrust in the traditional media, and that is why a large part
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of them, believing those of right- wing ideologies and non- aligned ones,
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prefer to be informed through international sources. There is a popular clamor to
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see new faces in politics that really
represent the people. If it rains in
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Colombia in other countries it is not
field. The next presidential election in the
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U S will be between an eighty- one man, Joe Biden, and
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another seventy- seven, Donald Trump, two literally and figuratively old faces of
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U S politics that far exceed the
average retirement age of Americans and, of
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course, has not left the people
of that country at rest. An ABC
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News itsus poll conducted in February found
that fifty- nine percent of Americans think
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both candidates are too old to serve
another term. The issue of a maximum
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age to aspire to certain positions emerged
in this country thanks to the upcoming elections
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and, as the BBC text on
this subject says, beyond the discussions on
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the fact that those autocracyes are generally
not representative of their population, there are
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other concerns. One of those concerns
is, of course, the health of
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the Prime Minister, and it is
not a secret to anyone who, while
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with age thirsting for experience and field, neuroscience and psychology suggests, cognitive performance
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varies widely as people age, making
it difficult to determine if someone can be
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too old to lead a country.
And while some skills tend to decrease with
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age, others improve on the other
side. There are those who think that
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to become President you have to have
experience and feel that youth does not give
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to these attributes. On the contrary, it' s a problem to be
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a rookie. It is age or
experience a guarantee of charity when choosing a
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president. He tells the question to
political consultant Gonzalo de Francisco, and this
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he answered me. The premise with
which I give birth is that I have
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a special appreciation to those people who
always vote for what they want, who
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sometimes vote to the left, sometimes
vote to the right, and who always
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do so from taking into account three
aspects that are key, three variables,
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On the one hand, experience,
on the other hand, the character of
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the candidate and, lastly, the
political stance of that candidate. It is
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clear that the character and political stance
have to do with the fact that this
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candidate has a journey, a journey
that obviously has to do with his age.
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But where the subject of experience is
fundamental and much more important. It
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is clear that experience, character and
political stance always have an environment at the
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moment when the vote takes place,
at the political juncture, in the sensitive
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issue that is taking precedence at a
given time for the reason of the vote
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of the people. But finally,
always what is the ability of the person
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to understand, his/ her environment, the way he/ she faces,
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the decision- making and the depth
of the problems and the position that,
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in my case, always tends to
be of center left, since they are
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determinants for the decision of the vote. There is a very thrilling phrase that
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says that young people are the future
of humanity, but I would say that
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youth are the present. It is
Or, at least, must be the
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driving force behind a country' s
changes now and not when they are more
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than forty years old, that they
must take the reins to achieve them.
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It is they who have put on
the table very important debates such as sexual
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and reproductive rights and mental health.
And it is through politics that the necessary
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changes can continue to be made,
as did the youth of the Seventh ballot
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in nine hundred and ninety. But
in order for these seeds to grow,
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it is necessary that the light that
does not shadow Eucalyptus, that leads them
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to grow and become the new leaders
of the country and the world, so
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that we cease to be governed by
a gerontocracy. I am Roberto Pombo and
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this was chapter eighty- seven of
my questions We will see you in the
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next chapter from now on. This
chapter of my questions is available on all
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podcast platforms. This episode was made
possible thanks to the Teatro cafam much more
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than Teatro Dirección Roberto Pombo, Producción
General, juan Abel Gutiérrez, Asesor editorial,
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Daniel San Pedro Espina, scripts juan
Abel Gutiérrez and Johnny RodrÃguez. Field
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production Marcela Salazar and LucÃa Beltrán.
Post- production of audio Carlos Bernar