¿Hay recambio generacional en la política colombiana?

0:06 I' m Roberto Pombo. Welcome to my questions, a half- hurry program sponsored by Kfam Theatre. Much more than theater. Young people have always been an important part of national politics, from the Seventh Paper movement to the mobilizations of social outbursts. However, such participation has not been reflected in the age of political leaders. Why young political figures hardly grow under the shadow of big politicians. Young people are apathetic to participating in politics. For this chapter, we spoke with Andrés Sampaio, a doctor in political and international studies, with former councillor Martín Rivera, with Mateo Ortiz, researcher and teacher at the Javeriano Youth Observatory, with the former prosecutor and member of the 7th ballot movement, Fernando Carril, and with the political consultant Gonzalo de Francisco Soy Roberto Pombo.

1:04 And this is chapter eighty- seven of my welcome questions. I do not know if you have ever stopped to observe the forest landscape anywhere in the country, almost in any region, it is not only rich, but wonderful and hypnotic. From Yarumos guayacanes to Palmeras and Ceibas, we grew accustomed to being surrounded by greens in their many shades. According to the Humboldt Institute, in the country there are one thousand two hundred and fifty- four species of endemic trees and shrubs, that is, that are typical of Acá, but also to add the five hundred ninety- seven species of plants introduced and among them are two that we see almost every day that practically hide in the landscape, some trees that grow in almost all departments, especially in cold places that have taken much of the landscape, the eucalyptus and cypress pines. Of this tree there are about fifteen species in the country and it is said to be a productive tree that gives very fast wood and that is hard wood to work, which grows very fast. It is also one of the bees' favorite trees to build their hives. However, as with any species that is introduced, it has had its problems. For example, it is said to be a tree with a high water consumption. It is estimated that a tree consumes peinte liters per day. But the adverse effect that struck me most by reading about this tree is that, as they are so large, they require a

2:36 lot of room to grow and if two or more are sown together, one must be cut off so that another grows very few. Other species grow under these immense trees, first of all, because their shadow does not allow the light to reach the base, but also, because it causes many minerals from the earth to rise to the surface and become more acidic under the shadow of the eucalyptus. It' s hard for something else to grow or you can ' t sow two of them very close together. They are shadows that in many cases are not so beneficial, something like the shadow that projects in much of the political arenas in Colombia, a land that seems very acidic and that has become almost infertile for younger political actors florish. It' s a matter of ego. There are no young people who want to follow these steps.

3:23 Let' s look at most of the current generation of political leaders started about thirty- five to forty years ago. Colombia lived in convulsive moments of violence, though when not, but it was thirty- four years ago that student leaders, former members of the Areme guerrillas, nineteen career politicians and citizens of multiple origins came together to draft the Constitution that we have today. Let us then go back to March of one thousand nine hundred and ninety. On that day the country was attending a new election day to elect senators, representatives to the House, deputies of local assemblies, municipal councillors, mayors and the presidential candidate of the Liberal Party. Then, at the polling stations, each voter received six ballots. However, other ballots appeared at the polls that had the text that said plebichito for Colombia vote for a Constituent Assembly that reforms the Constitution and determines political, social and economic changes for the benefit of the people.

4:26 Those in charge of having that ballot existed were a group of university students in their 20 months. Then, May 27, 1990, together with the presidential elections, was also voted for a plebiscite to organize a constituent National Assembly, which gave life to the current Constitution, that of one thousand nine hundred and ninety- one. More than five million Colombians voted in favour of three thousand and five hundred constituent works. It is the most impressive pontive work of the yasido indigenous witness rei blessing five hundred years of forgetfulness Christian catolysis to all those atheists, then despised, coming to peace, representatives of the senditalist and traditional political stragracies. In this group of young people were, among many others, the former mayor of Bogotá, Claudio López, former prosecutor Fernando Carrillo, former senator Antonio Sanguino and academic Catalina Botero. How it was that such an important event for the history of the country. It started with a group of university students and not experienced politicians. I moved the question to former prosecutor Fernando Carrillo, who was part of that movement, and this was told to me by the Seventh Paper and the constituent process of nine hundred and ninety- one begins at the moment of greater repodio and discredit in the traditional political class. That

5:57 is why the politicians did not approach the R Septima Papeleta movement, which had been born as a civil society movement, which had consolidated itself in the public and private universities of Colombia and which, in some way, was a kind of goal that we put to the political class in an oversight where in a great parenthesis of the political history of Colombia, that intilism and corruption were not seen neither contracts, nor appointments, nor favoritism, and there was a clean process from civil society, from the bottom up, from the top down, as it is intended to somehow force a constituent process. That' s why they were work tables. It was a march of the silence of the students, a process of collective construction and I would say the greatest political consensus in the history of Colombia, which had social forces and, of course, to which the political forces joined when the success of the Septima Papeleta was already seen, because we also went to respect the institutions. The process of the Septima Papeleta was a process of three direct resources to the people. He participated in the elections on 11 March. It wins the seventh ballot 27 May, votes with the Constituent Card and settles. The Constituent Assembly was convened on December 9, 1990. Then there were one hundred and fifty days without political class, one hundred and fifty days in which traditional politics creaked. The ideal would have been that the spirit of the constituent would have been maintained for three decades.

7:18 Unfortunately, that has not been the case. But without prejudice to that, the Constitution of the 1990s is still more in force than ever before. It must be respected, it must be implemented, it must be fulfilled and it must not be thrown overboard, as some are now mentioning, but let us now move forward. Up to two thousand nineteen, the country goes through protest days of demonstrations. An Attribute Reform proposal put forward by the government of then President Ivan Duke, unleashed the disconformity of thousands of people, especially young people, who came out in the streets and started what was known as the social outburst, which spread even to two thousand twenty- one, with a pause of two thousand twenty for the pandemic of covid nineteen. This mobilization, which took thousands of young people to the streets for several days, was the germ of the election of the first left- wing government in the country, that of President Gustavo Peto. However, it did not end in a generational renewal of power. When one of the presidential candidates of the last elections or at least those of the twenty- first century. It is almost common for Savrun are almost all surnames, repeated by men over the age of fifty or even sixty Pastrana, Serpa, Mocus, Santos Uribe, Gaviria. I am referring to Carlos Diedio, leader of the democratic pole Zuloaga Fajardo Petro. And it is that to find a candidate and even president under forty, you have to go up to one thousand nine hundred forty five, when Alberto Hillera was president for the first time with thirty- nine years. To find a younger president,

8:50 you have to go until the 19th century, to one thousand eight hundred twenty- eight, when Estalistado Vergara was president at thirty- eight years old and even the first president of the country. Simon Bolivar took office at the age of one thousand eight hundred and nineteen and thirty- six. Perhaps the most recent case was that of former President Duque, who led the presidency when he was forty- two, the youngest in this century. But to see, for example, the two candidates of the second round last, Gustavo Petro at sixty- two years old and his rival, Rodolfo Hernández, who was little more than winning at seventy- seven years old. It makes me think of the few new or at least young names that there are the presidential cards of recent times. But beyond the ages of the presidents, I want to refer to something I mentioned a moment ago, and it is the leaders of Colombia' s largest political parties and movements that almost always repeat presidential campaign, but that, like the eucalyptus, do not allow leadership to grow under their shadow. Let' s look at it on a case- by- case basis, let' s start with the President and his movement. Today, reaching almost half of his term, there are no young names that can continue with his legacy or at least keep the left or left in power And if it is generally difficult to imagine who can take the reins of the left in the country today, much less in someone under the age of forty. The most visible faces of the President' s movement are in Congress, such as Senator Ivan Zepeda, who is sixty- one, perhaps the youngest and most promising face the leftist movement has to aspire to continue ruling. It is Senator

10:22 María José Pizarro, who is in her second term in Congress and has earned the confidence of President Petro, who is no small thing. There are two figures in his cabinet. Laderaura Sarabia, the President' s right hand, which has proved to be a bridge between the government and entrepreneurs. And we should also highlight the growth in image of the director of the daily Juis, Carlos Reyes, who has become popular on social networks, known as Mr. Taxis. Now let' s move on to the center. Sergio Fajardo has captured the presidential candidacy of the political center in several elections, but sixty- seven years ago he has not succeeded in inheriting or at least, delegating to someone younger his political capital, his citizen engagement movement has no congressional mayors or representatives in any corporation. The last elections in which he participated were in the presidential past, but as part of the central coalition hope And before that, he was from the territorial directorates of two thousand nineteen, in which citizen engagement participated with the candidate IBN Mauricio Pérez, in which he had only two one percent of the votes. And another relevant political figure is former Vice President Germán Vargas Lleras, who is still a leader of his movement and who is still relevant in national politics. But there are no known natural heirs who can take their reins in the past, when it belonged to radical change, several young people at that time appeared in the spotlights such as Rodrigo Lara, Restrepo, Carlos Fernando Galán, who has made the entire political career from Dila to Ministers,

11:52 the Senator of da vill Luna, who at forty- nine years old is positioned as the youngest face of this movement. Paradoxically, the right wing seems to be one of the few, not to say that the only movement that has managed to have at least once a replacement former President Ivan Duque has been one of the youngest presidents we have had or at least in the 21st century. Of course, they have a very important weapon, and that is that the blessing of the former President to any candidate gives a ticket, at least to the second presidential round, being Federico Gutiérrez the only exception to this, although today the right with the former President Uribe, retired from politics and a trial against him seems to be cephala and the most notable figures are not exactly young, like Senators Paloma Valencia and María Fernanda. Cabal of the few young faces that seem to be opening their way to a future presidential career in this spectrum is that of Senator Miguel Uribe Turbay, who has managed to rally and lead the opposition to President Petro' s government and is not yet forty years old. Carmesa salt Diaz is an academic and co- founder of the Portal Razón Pública. She writes an article on that page that gathers an analysis that concludes that we live in a gerontocracy. According to salt Ten, in the country they still rule. Older gentlemen who do not promote new leadership and do not believe the importance of including young people and women in their teams, and the generational relay is still far away in our country. I see this picture and wonder why it is so difficult for young political figures to grow under the wing of the great political chieftains. I looked for a young politician You

13:26 ' re a councilman from Bogotá, Martín Rivera, to help me answer. And this he told me in general, there is a political crisis and a crisis of leadership with everything that the country has drunk since the beginning of the pandemic and in recent events, because it generates that a lot of people who are not linked to political life do not want to get in there. On the contrary, he prefers to be far away, prefers to see him from outside, and prefers to criticize him. And in the specific case of Sergio Fajardo, he has been a leader who has built all his work from opinion, from political activities far from traditional politics and closely linked to the result of his own work. I would not say that it is a leadership that opaque young leaders, but that those who enter or enter that line have the responsibility and the job of shining with their own light. It is not an electorate that votes for those who tell the person for whom they voted that they should vote, but, on the contrary, a critical electorate, an electorate that is watching the new moves and an increasingly dynamic electorate in the digital. Hence the challenge that new leaderships must emerge from that creativity and that work of their own without expecting it to be accompanied by a person with those characteristics. If

14:56 we look at incorporations such as the very main Councils, Congress, mayors and governorates, there are young people, but how many are considered presidential. The law states that to be a senator you must be at least thirty years old. To be a representative, at least twenty- five, to be mayor you have to be at least thirty and to be governor more than twenty- five. To be a councillor, you have to be of age. This last position of popular election is, in many cases, one of the first steps of many of the most notorious politicians today, such as Federico GutiérrezÁlvaro Uribe or the same, President Petro, the title of the youngest councillor in Colombia changes every four years, when an eighteen- year- old is chosen for that dignity. If you search Google for the youngest councillor in Colombia, several names come out of multiple municipalities, such as Smith Caviedes in Algeciras, Huilla, Paula Gallego in Santuario in Tiokia, Miguel Bedoya in Marinilla or Julián sastoque in Bogotá. The Congress is also attended by many first- timers in the world of politics, such as the representative Miguel Polo Polo, Jennifer Pedrassa of the Party of Dignity, Susana Gomez, better known as Susana Borealis, of the Historical Pact. They are congressmen with influence in the national debate, especially for their ages. They' re under 30 years old. However, that is not enough to seriously aspire to the President in the country. There is no shortage of initiatives to train young people in politics. From NGOs student movements to the Ministry of the Interior have set up political training schools for young people. However, there are a number of obstacles to young people' s

16:29 participation in politics, research, knowledge, opportunities and barriers to participation in politics. In support of the youth of Professor Gloria Lina Castañeda found that there are two types of obstacles for young people to participate in politics, internal factors that are located in themselves and those attributed to external factors. Institutional, contextual, political, among others, among the internal factors are apathy and lack of interest to know about issues of participation, lack of self- confidence or are the result of the context of insecurity and violence in your region and the lack of credibility and constitutionality. And the external factors expressed by the young people surveyed were lack of institutional support, political and institutional manipulation and their social context of violence and insecurity. Young people are more or less involved in politics. He moves from the question to Andrés sampayo, a doctor in political and international studies.

17:26 In order to assess the participation of young people in politics, it is essential to understand the political system in force in Colombia, which is governed by the democratic principle. Democracy in its essence is defined by the series criteria and attributes that embody fundamental values. In addition to its primary electoral aspect, democracy includes liberal, participatory, liberating and egalitarian aspects. In this context, young people actively participate in the participatory and liberating dimensions of democracy. However, in Colombia there is a lack of evidence that clarifies and this participation translates votes during the elections. This gap between the democratic dimensions has a significant political impact. Although young people mobilize on the streets and commit themselves to various causes, they often find their main references in music, the series of films and books, rather than in the political sphere. When politicians are able to present a viable future.

18:23 We see an increase in youth participation in the days leading up to the elections. However, in the absence of this clear vision, frustration arises that does not necessarily translate into political inactivity, but can lead young people to seek inspiration in other areas. Both the left, with its focus on socialism and on the right with its head of the market economy, have failed to show a future, which has led many young people to feel that their future has been cancelled. Therefore, they do politics, but not with politicians, if it seems that the discontent of young people with politics, at least partisan politics, is quite high. In October of two thousand twenty- three, the Universidad del Rosario conducted the eighth perception study that thinks, feels and wants young people in Colombia and according to studies, the thing is this way. Young people do not trust politicians or Internet influencers. Both are at the bottom of the barrel with eighty- four percent distrust and is not much better for religious leaders, who are not Catholics, with seventy- five percent. The Congress and the media are not saved either by around seventy- three percent, and what to say about social networks with sixty- nine percent distrust and the national police sixty- four percent. There is also a reserve for the sixty- four percent municipal governments. They don' t inspire much confidence either. Even the Catholic Church sixty- one percent and the presidency fifty- eight percent are on the looserope. So there is a distrust atmosphere that is breathed into the air. The Dani poll of political culture of the year two thousand nineteen recorded

19:57 that people between the ages of eighteen and twenty- five had the lowest turnout in the presidential elections of two thousand eighteen compared to the other age groups. Forty- three comma eight percent of the population of these young people did not vote and thirty- two percent of them did not vote out of selflessness and forgive me for continuing with more numbers, but all those I find are impressive. Last year, the Javeriana University and the Young Resilients program of Ushaib and Abdi Boca conducted the survey resilient voices to five thousand four hundred and sixty- five young people between the ages of fourteen and twenty- eight, and it was concluded, among other things, that the faith of young people in democratic institutions is on the ground. This could be seen in his aja participation in elections, where only one in three exercises his right to vote. Many are not even aware of the youth participation platforms that have emerged recently, and it is not common to see them in social or community organizations. In fact, only one in ten is part of one, and many think that getting involved only brings them headaches. There are more studies and more figures showing young people ' s discontent with electoral politics. But I' m not gonna fill them with river percentages. I' m just going to give you one that' s more eloquent than the others. In December two thousand twenty- one elections were held to the National Youth Council. Yes, if I didn' t know there was a National Youth Council, and of the more than 12 million young people between the ages of 14 and 28 who were eligible to vote,

21:29 only one two million came. Here comes a question similar to Egg and Chicken. Young people are not interested in politics because they do not feel represented. Or they are not being represented because they are not interested in participating. But to be more concrete, I asked him what can be done to engage young people in political participation. The institutionalized political participation of Colombian youth is better understood if we use a relational metaphor where the state and youth are two people who are talking. When you are in a conversation and feel that the other person does not listen to you, most likely you stop talking to that person and engage in something else. And that' s where one of the data from the survey is going to be resilient comes out. Sixty- five percent of young people consider that politicians do not listen to them. And what happens precisely when one feels that one does not listen to it, one loses confidence and that has generated that, in fact, the youth decide not to opt for institutionalized forms of political participation, that is, to vote to participate in those spaces that call for mayors. And in that sense it begins to translate to the fact that Thursdays do not participate, that it is very different from those together they participate in other ways, and that has been fully documented. What happens and the challenge right now is how we can link young people to institutional participation why, because that' s where decisions are made that affect prepositions and the answer would be precisely ending. Likewise, data on how to engage young people and wings in institutionalized political participation through the recognition that it is to recognize,

23:02 recognize that this is a subject that has clear bets, effective needs and, yet, a great opportunity to contribute to municipal, departmental or national decision - making. It is only there, behind the recognition, that we will ensure that young people really give themselves a guarantee to participate and therefore engage in all these processes. But despite all those figures and data that I recited, there is hope. The fact that youth participation and electoral politics are low does not mean that they are depoliticized. In two thousand twenty- two, the Luminat Foundation did research youth and democracy in Latin America, in which they interviewed young people between sixteen and twenty- four years of age from Colombia, Argentina, Brazil and Mexico. One of the conclusions of this research is that this generation is politicized differently and is not depoliticized, as is often believed. According to this research, young people perceive political leaders as distant from everyday problems, especially those affecting youth. Politics seems to them to be an elite game, which generates distrust in the traditional media, and that is why a large part of them, believing those of right- wing ideologies and non- aligned ones, prefer to be informed through international sources. There is a popular clamor to see new faces in politics that really represent the people. If it rains in Colombia in other countries it is not field. The next presidential election in the U S will be between an eighty- one man, Joe Biden, and another seventy- seven, Donald Trump, two literally and figuratively old faces of

24:34 U S politics that far exceed the average retirement age of Americans and, of course, has not left the people of that country at rest. An ABC News itsus poll conducted in February found that fifty- nine percent of Americans think both candidates are too old to serve another term. The issue of a maximum age to aspire to certain positions emerged in this country thanks to the upcoming elections and, as the BBC text on this subject says, beyond the discussions on the fact that those autocracyes are generally not representative of their population, there are other concerns. One of those concerns is, of course, the health of the Prime Minister, and it is not a secret to anyone who, while with age thirsting for experience and field, neuroscience and psychology suggests, cognitive performance varies widely as people age, making it difficult to determine if someone can be too old to lead a country. And while some skills tend to decrease with age, others improve on the other side. There are those who think that to become President you have to have experience and feel that youth does not give to these attributes. On the contrary, it' s a problem to be a rookie. It is age or experience a guarantee of charity when choosing a president. He tells the question to political consultant Gonzalo de Francisco, and this he answered me. The premise with which I give birth is that I have

26:06 a special appreciation to those people who always vote for what they want, who sometimes vote to the left, sometimes vote to the right, and who always do so from taking into account three aspects that are key, three variables, On the one hand, experience, on the other hand, the character of the candidate and, lastly, the political stance of that candidate. It is clear that the character and political stance have to do with the fact that this candidate has a journey, a journey that obviously has to do with his age. But where the subject of experience is fundamental and much more important. It is clear that experience, character and political stance always have an environment at the moment when the vote takes place, at the political juncture, in the sensitive issue that is taking precedence at a given time for the reason of the vote of the people. But finally, always what is the ability of the person to understand, his/ her environment, the way he/ she faces, the decision- making and the depth of the problems and the position that, in my case, always tends to be of center left, since they are determinants for the decision of the vote. There is a very thrilling phrase that says that young people are the future of humanity, but I would say that youth are the present. It is Or, at least, must be the driving force behind a country' s changes now and not when they are more than forty years old, that they must take the reins to achieve them.

27:38 It is they who have put on the table very important debates such as sexual and reproductive rights and mental health. And it is through politics that the necessary changes can continue to be made, as did the youth of the Seventh ballot in nine hundred and ninety. But in order for these seeds to grow, it is necessary that the light that does not shadow Eucalyptus, that leads them to grow and become the new leaders of the country and the world, so that we cease to be governed by a gerontocracy. I am Roberto Pombo and this was chapter eighty- seven of my questions We will see you in the next chapter from now on. This chapter of my questions is available on all podcast platforms. This episode was made possible thanks to the Teatro cafam much more than Teatro Dirección Roberto Pombo, Producción General, juan Abel Gutiérrez, Asesor editorial, Daniel San Pedro Espina, scripts juan Abel Gutiérrez and Johnny Rodríguez. Field production Marcela Salazar and Lucía Beltrán. Post- production of audio Carlos Bernar