¿Debe ser pública la vida íntima de los mandatarios?

0:06 I am Roberto Pombo welcome to my questions an average rush program sponsored by KFAM, family compensation box. One of the bemolls of being a person with power as a president is that the line that separates his private life from his public life is becoming more and more diffuse. The details of the Presidents' loving and intimate life must be public. A political leader can be ethical in public and not in private. For this chapter we spoke with journalists Angela Patricia Janiott, María Elvira sanper Daniel Coronel, Ana, Cristina Restrepo, Lloranda Ruiz and Daniel Sanperrospina. I am Roberto Pombe and this is chapter ninety- seven of my questions welcome. I' m going to start this chapter with a confession.

0:57 I' m a romantic man who believes in love. This feeling I mean love is perhaps the one that has motivated stories the most. Most great works of art have to do with impossible loves, toxic loves, difficult loves, failed romances. In short, and many of these great stories of love have transcended centuries and even millennia, such as Robó and Juliet, the story of an impossible love that created an archetype in itself, or the story of power, violence and love between Dalina and Samson, in which the woman betrays the strongest man in the world who is in love with her, revealing the secret of her superhuman strength. And perhaps my favorite Colombian novel of this kind is the love in times of García Márquez' s anger, a magnificent story about the resistance of love. Over time, only people in love could write these stories. In short, it would take hours to view all the novels, stories and stories that have been written on this subject. Real life has also given us great love stories, although here I must confess that those who mix with power are my favorite. For example, the first one that comes to mind is a story that mixes two great characters like Cleopatra and Julius Caesar, in a relationship that still gives much to speak to historians, or that of Napoleon Bonaparte, one of the most important military and politicians in history, who fell in love with Josefina de Bornet, a lady of French high society,

2:28 and her relationship was full of infidelities due to Napoleon' s long absences, but her relationship ended because she could not conceive reiter. I' d have to spend hours reciting the number of stories around love. But in my personal capacity, one of the ones that has interested me the most is the one that supposedly existed between the President of the United States, John Fischer and Kennedy, and the actress and model Marilyn Monroe. Of this reliable information, but rumors have been that Monroe has an affair not only with President Kennedy, but with his brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy. These rumors were fueled in part by the sensual happy birthday performance for President Kennedy of the celebration of his forty- five birthday at the Mison Square Garden on 19 May of one thousand nine hundred and sixty- two months before the death of Hollywood' s son hed Re. Tales of biographers escorts and key masters suggest that Monroe' s alleged suicide is related to the care of keeping the secret of r n r

3:59 r N or of the President of the United States. Let the world know that John F. Kennedy was an adulterous person, he would have had serious political repercussions. As we already know, all the protagonists of this story ended tragically. The intimate life of people with power, like presidents, is a subject that causes morbidness and curiosity. Maybe that' s why there' s always so much care and suspicion about them. This is the case that is the most common and controversial, that of the former president of the United States, Bill Clinton and the former White House practitioner, Monica le Whinskys, in case she doesn' t remember it or is very young, never found out.

4:40 In a thousand nine hundred and ninety- eight, a scandal broke out in which then President Clinton had an affair with the twenty- two- year - old practitioner Monica le WINSKIY in August of that year, President Clinton agreed to have an inappropriate physical relationship with Lewinsky. The West Not of Pro IRA ' s Sociel Wood Nestownscrit program, the West Rold Coutts Personal fact, Faler ol Myport for wit iamy the PLATE the RESPONDSB. However, in January of that same year, the President had refused to have relations with her, whom he asked to lie about Ader Not Health Sexual, I have wsonso of Romans lowanskiy ah nevir Town BND bats or an hour santle T in Neville was because of this lie that President Clinton became the second President in the history of the United States to be called to a political trial, although he was then turned over and only had to pay$ 90, 000 for giving false testimony.

5:45 The cases in which the love, sexual or intimate life of the Presidents becomes news have been several in the world. Just to mention a few are the cases of the former President of France, Nicolas Sarcosin, and what began as an affair with Carla Bruni' s singer, when she had recently divorced his wife for eleven years. But before that was Francois Holande, who came to the presidency as a couple of the journalist Valerie Triballe, with whom she ended up admitting that she had a thread with actress Juli Galle. At this time, the French press jumped on the news and the fact was very visible and commented For several weeks. The public was flooded by media coverage from all angles and Holland' s approval rate was affected by this scandal. As several polls showed. The list of leaders involved in gossip and living and loving is long.

6:38 Only the Presidents of France, who have maintained individual romances make up more than half. Maybe that' s why they call their capital the City of Love. But beyond gossip and gossip magazines, these rarely transcend, among other things, because for the French private life is much more sacred than it is, for example, for public figures and in the other United States, In what cases the romantic life of a president is relevant to public opinion. He transferred the question to the journalist and Joranda Ruiz, and this answered me. The right to privacy of public figures, particularly those in senior positions of the State, is not a full right and has restrictions. In fact, this is reflected in several of the codes of ethics of many media outlets around the world. Now it is not written in stone, in terms of journalistic ethics, in which case matters of that private life can be aired or not.

7:31 There are differences, for example, between what happens in a private venue or in a public space, but it always depends on the situation, the context and, above all, the possible public consequences of the private episode. Affective relations belong in principle to the private sphere, but if they can have an impact on security, on the use of public money, on the fulfilment of the duties of the public character, they cease to be exclusively private matter and may become part of matters of general or collective interest. On the other hand, we cannot forget that, although it was long considered that the public and private spheres could not be crossed and there was a kind of permanent veil on the considered personal matters, since today it is clear that the way couples, family relationships or care work are handled, to mention some private matters, because today this is part of important debates on, for example, gender roles and the challenges that society must face. That is why every detail of the matter must always be looked at with magnifying glass to understand when other private individuals can transcend and become facts that go beyond the personal, this when speaking, of course, of persons who occupy high positions in the State. A few weeks ago a video appeared on social networks in which President Gustavo Pedro was supposedly seen walking hand in hand with a woman in the historic center of Panama, during an official visit by the President. The controversy was served. However, only some media took the issue as news. It was the same President Petro,

9:03 who referred to the subject and in his x account published a message in which he neither confirmed nor denied that it was he who appeared in the video. The President asked for respect for his privacy. He rejected the transphobic messages that came at the root of the rumor that the woman with whom he allegedly appeared in the video was a trans woman The President said Auro Comillas. I have always considered intimacy to be the ultimate reason for freedom, the last trench of being free, and I will retain this principle until I write of myself or die for those thousands of transphobic messages that have exploded in the hands of a deeply exclusionary, ignorant and discriminatory right- wing society, must be rejected by the President. Every progressive knows that human beings are equal and that the struggle for such equality involves physical and mental emancipation and, therefore, no one who considers himself human can generalize the trans in weak minds, slavery and discrimination.

10:03 That action does not express animality, but brutality. That' s why they kill the different and for millions. That' s why they existed and there are Nazis. I am straight, but you will never hear or read from me a transphoic word, because I would not just stop being a man, but a human. I' m closing Jomillas. The subject didn' t have much excitement, but a week after empty chair and his lie detector did an analysis of the video. He consulted sources on the site and, according to his investigations, it is President Peto, who appears in the video. According to this media, he consulted with the House of Nariño, which neither denied nor confirmed that it was the President. Faced with the question asked in two of July, they replied that Palacio does not take positions on personal matters and that he addressed quotation marks. No staff member is authorized to comment.

10:54 I close quotes according to the empty chair. There are several direct testimonies from people who came or President Petro walking hand in hand with the woman, they also found that it was not an altered video or created by artificial intelligence. But beyond the fact that, in fact, the video is true that, in fact, President Petro walked hand in hand with a woman in the historic center of Panama, because this is news and deserves to be covered I looked for journalist Angela Patricia Janiot to answer this question. The private life of a public official or of a president should not be of importance and should not generate general scrutiny unless there are some eventualities, for example, when private life goes into public light, moving from private space to public space. How was the case with the scandal video in Panama. This generates, of course, the curiosity of the public, the journalistic interest and generates several questions. For example, the video is real, authentic or a fake video generated with artificial intelligence.

12:03 President Petro is the person who appears in the images, who is the woman who accompanies him? Well, President Petro has not denied or confirmed the veracity of this video, which is already eloquent, nor has he denied or confirmed the versions that identified his companion as a transsexual woman. Another eventuality is whether the President' s private agenda, Petro' s private life, is affecting his public agenda, his official agenda and, of course, this in the case of Gustavo Petro has a background, because it is already known that the President cancels his presence at some events in which he is already confirmed or on several occasions, has arrived late at these events without giving more explanations, because he has private matters to fulfill. We should all be interested in that.

12:56 And there is a third possibility, and that is that if public money is committed in that private agenda, that must also generate, of course, ethical questioning and, because it generates a problem of conflict of interest. I also looked for the peléodista, the Cristina retrepo to ask the same question and this is an answer. The first consideration is whether other Presidents of Colombia have been screened equally their potentials or possible extramarital affairs. And the answer is no, even though we have known that there is. That' s the first thing. Secondly, the intimate life of a President is not relevant to public opinion unless he is first using public resources, secondly, if he is affecting the security of the country or, thirdly, if the President is violating his oath to the Constitution and the laws which, for that does not seem to be the case. A third point and that seems to me the most interesting thing here is because a President like Gustavo Petro allowed him to be held by the hand with a woman who is not his wife, because Gusto state, but was in a public place, in a city full of journalists, i e, knew that they would see him. And then, like nobody else, as in the mainstream media, they didn' t make a fuss, he came out on the X- Net with an ambiguous message, supporting the trans community and declaring then without any need to be heterosexual. That for me is the question we should ask ourselves here now is that we are not asking the right questions. First is why you let yourself be seen? Why wasn ' t he hiding? Why did you show yourself? Why And the other

14:28 question already journalism is why if Petro, President Petro, has so many times missed events or arrives late or does not show up, why is it chosen when the President goes out with a trans woman like the moment when he wants to do fac check and the step- by- step scrutiny of what he did. Why it wasn' t done before in any of his dozens of previous defaults. And now, yes, that' s the kind of journalism we want to do. This is not the first time that the intimate life of a President of Colombia has become news. We have already discussed this in chapter five. For example, as President Ivan, Duke on social media, rumor spread that his head of gabinetic Maria Paula Correa was his lover. Like all gossip, there was never evidence that that was true. Nor were there any official pronouncements in this regard. The media also did not give it importance and no news was recorded about it. Only in his book, the latest anti- memorial line of a chief of staff, published this year, Correa dedicated a space to this topic. The chief of staff told Bro Comillas, " I want to talk head- on and say that just because I' m a young woman and because of the position I have to be the president ' s maid" They don' t think I' m capable and I have the capabilities to do it. I close Comillas, But, as I said, beyond the mockery and trend on social networks, the issue did not transcend as news in any medium. The debate about the life of the public

16:00 and the presidents and people with high positions of power is old and is both long and wide. Much has been written and debated about it. One of those many analyses is that of Nercathal, an academic at George Stown University, who in the year 2, 000 wrote the document The Public and Private Lives of the Presidents, in which he reflects on this separation. Among other things, Kaital concludes that the distinction between the intimate and public life of a President or President is not fully valid because of the unique nature of the Presidency, which is in office 24 hours a day every day of the week, and further argues that this special constitutional status exerts prices on the distinction between the public and the private and that the Presidents have only a limited reservation of secrecy to appeal to. And one argument that comes up when you talk about this issue is that everyone, including public figures, has the right to privacy. But when a person enters public life, he must understand certain issues that could be considered private for a private individual can become matters of reasonable public interest. When that individual is running for a position, become a public servant, significant to put the public interest to its own. In an article published in Harvard Politics Review of that university, it reflects on the pros and cons of publicizing the private life of politicians. On the one hand, almost everyone rationally agrees that

17:30 gossip about the private life of public figures should never be the focus of media attention, but at the same time, there is an almost implicit expectation that public figures should act as a model of that behavior. But one of the most important points that this article touches is the difference between the reaction of the public in different countries to the behavior of their presidents. And he cites as an example the case of the former Prime Minister of Italy, Silvio de Rusconic, who had several sexual scandals involving sex workers, and yet this did not result in a political trial for that issue, while in countries like the United States, these events, such as Clinton' s or more recently Trump' s, are scandals to which they are devoted a lot of time and ink.

18:18 According to the Harvard Political Review, this may be due to religious differences. While it was adultery, it can be considered a scandal in a Christian country or any country with a monogamous majority. It can be perfectly tolerated in countries with a non-élite, ruling and polygamous population. An example of this is that in the United States, Democratic Congressman Anthony Winner resigned, after it was known that he was sent photoshile, I was stripped of several women. Several years later he was charged and sentenced for doing the same with minors. And, on the other hand, the French learned at the funeral of the former Fraste Amitrant, who had a second secret family and also benefit from public funds. About the ethical behavior of a ruler in his intimate life.

19:06 There are also many questions and many positions. One of them is that if a politician behaves badly in private matters, he could act in the same way with his public duties. Then, under this hypothesis, if a president is unfaithful to his wife, he is a person who cannot be trusted, because he is not ethical. This discussion is broad and interesting, and Joudi Nutler and Miriam Schurman, politicians at the Marcula Center for Applied Ethics at the University of Santa Clara, wrote an essay on the subject. According to Nadler and Shulman, deep down, this question is a form of a long- standing equian debate about what is called the unity of virtues. For many of the ancient Greek philosophers, a person could not possess one of the cardinal virtues virulence that in iron courage of justice without possessing them all. Then, from this point of view, how to be able would be a person who cannot control his appetites or it is intemperate to be just or prudent. Socrates, for example, believed that virtue depended on understanding. Then, when a person understands good and evil, he will act prudently, tempered, courageously and righteously.

20:17 Many people believe in this which Socrates proposed about the unity of virtues. So in general, it is believed that a politician who cheats on his wife is not worthy of trust in public affairs. To this we must add that one of the main functions of the public sphere is considered educational and that it must help to form the souls of the next generation in order to achieve knowledge and to act correctly. In this context, a public servant should be an example of good conduct. However, if anything has taught us political history, it is that to be President, Prime Minister or Emperor does not require the unity of virtues. Moreover, it requires many virtues. I stay then it is with doubt that a politician can be ethical in public if he is not in his private life. This was answered by journalist Daniel Coronel. I believe that private ethics cannot be deduced from public ethics. However, I believe that if there is a limit between what is public and researchable in anyone even public men there is a margin of private life that must be respected. This does not mean that there may be a dichotomy between what they do in public and what they do in private, but only what affects their public performance can be investigated and published. And this, then, is not something that goes in line with many cultures. For example, in the United States, he recalls the scandal of the Democratic candidate for the presidency, Gerry Hart, who fell for

21:48 having a lover. Possibly that wouldn' t have been a point of inquiry. In Colombia, where we have a different culture and where candidate heads of state have enjoyed a respect and prudence, let us say great press towards their public activity. But in general, ethics is an area. The private and the public. For many other people, the line between the personal and the public is sharp and they delay it in a slightly different place. On the one hand, if in his personal life the President misuses public resources, i e, if, by mere chance, the President is a fanatic of howkey on ice and with public resources, Canada is followed every weekend to have matches of this sport on the presidential plane. Another line that divides these two worlds, the intimate and the public, is the one that defines whether a private matter affects the performance of the duties of the official, in this case, ceases to be a matter of his intimate sphere and becomes of public interest.

22:48 In this sense, physical and mental health is important information for the public. Thus, diseases that affect the work performance of local officials can be topics of mesmerizing research. The same is true of behaviors that could impede the performance of a president, such as substance abuse, which should be a matter of public interest. Financial problems, especially in a person with budgetary responsibilities, may also be relevant. In many cases, the mental health of several presidents around the world has served as an argument by their opponents to criticize him. We have seen this in a number of cases, but more recently with candidate President Joe Biden, whom even his co- partisans have asked to be part of the campaign for several lax who make doubt his mental service. In fact, there has always been a rumor of former president and Virgilio Barco began suffering from Alzheimer ' s even during his term of office, and that is why his mutism and strange behavior must be public or deprived of the mental and physical health of the Presidents. I asked the question to journalist Maria Elvira Samper and this she told me to answer must take into account a frame of reference. First, that the citizenry has the right to sound relevant information about its rulers, Second, that the rulers have the right to their private life and, third, that those rights are not absolute. Thus, in this context, the private mastery of the Presidents is reduced and information about their health, both mental and

24:22 physical, is of public interest because it can affect or interfere with their functions. Now, I' m not a psychologist, I' m not a psychiatrist either, but I' d say mental health is more than the absence of mental disorders. I think it also has to do with states with a high degree of distress, stress or anxiety, memory loss, mental lapses, confusion, difficulties in communicating and disorientation, also with addictions, emotional compulsion, impulsiveness, narcissism, proclivity to lies and lack of empathy. The catalogue is broad, and both the President and former President Trump, who was in the White House and aspires to repeat, fit some of these categories, but they are very much wondering why this matter is important, and the answer is that the Twenty- Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution says that, if the President is considered to be quotation marks unable to exercise the rights and obligations of his office I close quotes, the Vice President must take his place. Another aspect that has caused debate is the consumption of substances. For example, if a President smokes cigarettes he must often be public knowledge. You should have the citizenship to know if a president smokes marijuana at night or if he takes a couple of glasses of whiskey every day. On the one hand, one might say that if the consumption of substances affects their decisions, it must be reviewed.

25:41 I mean he decides the education budget with a couple of suits and liquor on his head or under the effects of marijuana is good or bad that decision he made. Perhaps there is moralism in the discussion and many people will claim that it is not the same to have a glass of whiskey as to smoke a marijuana cigarette. Other people will say that the important thing is that the use is not problematic and does not affect the mental abilities of the President. A President must be abstemious in every way. What' s the limit. The question is transferred to journalist Daniel San Pedro Espino Let' s hear what he told me good. I imagine anyone would think that there are trades that demand to be a hundred percent obstetric. I don' t know a surgeon can' t operate with a couple of whiskeys on his head, for example, or a pilot can' t answer for a flight after taking tequila.

26:32 In the case of a President, it should therefore be similar. Unless it is clear President of Circombia, the truth is that our country circus, several presidents have endured the tragedy of driving the ship steeping elbow, seems like a country driven by drunks that we do. The rulers should be abstract is the truth. By contrast, that' s for those of us who have to endure them. Empires have been shaken and governments have fallen due to the private indiscretion of their rulers. But also world leaders must have committed acts that many would consider unethical or reprehensible, and yet they have had good results and done good things for their people. The public should worry about the private life of a leader or should focus only on public actions that directly impact governance. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a definitive answer. The answer is most likely to be yes to both questions To a certain extent, this chapter, honoring the name of the program, leaves me with more concerns than certainties.

27:44 I don' t think there' s a universal answer. It will depend on each case whether certain aspects of a president' s intimate life should be made public. They almost always speak louder about their actions and results in the power of gossip and details of their private life. I am Roberto Bom and this was chapter ninety- seven of my questions. See you on the next road From now on, this chapter of my questions is available on all podcast platforms. This episode was made possible by Kafan. Family compensation box. Dirección Roberto Pombo, Producción General Juan Abel Gutiérrez, Asesor editorial, Daniel San Pedro Espina, Guiones juan Abel Gutiérrez y Johnny Rodríguez. Field production Marcela Salazar and Lucía Beltrán. Post- production of audio Carlos Bernar